Hi all, I am current owner of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK. We are driving down to see a nicely equipped C34MkII this afternoon. We've discussed when and how to upsize for 6 years, and it sounds like my wife is ready to let me pull the trigger on this if it's in nice condition.
I'm open to suggestions on what to look for this afternoon.
Quote from: SecondWind on May 28, 2016, 09:34:57 AM
I'm open to suggestions on what to look for this afternoon.
Start with the Critical Upgrades sticky topic, although most of it is for Mark I series boats.
Then take a look in the C34 Tech wiki, link at the top of this page.
Then do a search on "Catalina 34" on this forum. Reason is that many folks have asked the same question and the titles are usually things like: "What Catalina 34 should I buy?" or "What are the differences between a Catalina 36 and a Catalina 34?" So the search will bring these posts up as titles of topics. We rarely see "Catalina 34" in much of the texts, for obvious reasons: it's a C34 forum! :D
Good luck.
Second W : As Stu said you can breeze thru the Critical updates, but I can't right off think of any that are critical (there are some comments) for a MKII.
The only M35BC engine problem that I can think of is a sleeve for the raw water pump on the early engines. Look at the Westerbeke engine bulletins
You'll just have to wait for a C34 MKII owner to add comment/s on your post.
Just a quick reply back:
This 2001 vintage boat appeared to be in generally good shape, but not as pristine as I would have kept her. Apparently she has been on the market for over a year, but according to the broker there were no lookers because she was overpriced. She says that a recent price reduction has brought some lookers but no offers yet.
The owners (who have not registered their HIN here) apparently moved away a year ago and have had the boat on the hard ever since. Owners cannot use her in their new location due to very shallow water, but she says that they will move the boat closer to home to market her if not sold by July 1. It sounds like they may be motivated to sell. It looks like they did some upgrades and replacements a couple years ago, but I believe the boat does not show as well as it should because that's what happens when you're out of town and ignore the boat for a year. It does have a custom canvas cover which may have helped things in storage a little. But I'm told the cover is only a couple years old, so she may not have been fully covered earlier in its life.
There were two significant cosmetic issues: 1) The dodger and bimini were not serviceable - severely yellowed Eisenglass that was cracked in places with many zippers that had become unstitched, and 2) a lot of crazing on all the acrylic hatches - both the horizontal ones and the opening side ports. The broker said that there is a guy up the road who replaces Eisenglass and restitches at very low cost with only a couple hours wait. My response will be, "OK, since it's so easy, please have that done before the surveyor comes." Dodger/bimini/connector are very important to my wife and me, because baking in the sun spoils the fun of sailing, and the dodger buys an extra month or so at each end of the season. Regarding the crazing on the hatches, while I wish it had not happened, I assume it's normal for a boat this age, and I've seen some websites showing how to polish it out. I'm not going to ask seller to do anything about that, instead it will go on my own list (unless you guys suggest otherwise).
As you can tell, I'm leaning toward making an offer on this boat, just trying to pull together Soldboats data to help decide how much to offer as a starting point. I believe that the boat does not show as well as it could, so I think I can get a pretty good price on her. If not, I'll use my current boat this summer and wait until end of season to get serious (which was my original plan anyway). Owners did just have the boat "detailed," which appeared to be a pretty superficial cleanup which missed a lot of things. But the hull is nice and shiny, and the bottom well prepped for a coat of bottom paint.
By the way, we have talked ourselves out of naming the boat "Second Wind" (too many other boats by the same name). I'll be looking to change my user ID at some point in the future.
I have a 2001 year. What you are describing sounds pretty normal. The boats are 15 years old. My eisenglass has been replaced at least once. And it's time to do a total replacement of the dodger and bimmni. The electronics are 15 years old also. Working but out of date. I think the only "Critical Upgrades" that 2001 model need checked for is the water pump sleeve and a motor mount problem with cracking at the bend. My hull is 1570 and both problems were taken care of before mine was produced. I have not had any problem that I would not put under the heading of routine maintenance. I am very happy with my 2001 MKll. I couldn't ask for a more comfortable cruiser in 34 feet.
Jim
Did you check out the Critical Upgrades section of this site? The alternator bracket, wiring harness and traveler through bolt upgrades are critical, but also provide you with an insight to how well the owner has been maintaining their boat. When i bought my boat three years ago, 2 of the 3 were done, and it was a key to other issues.
The Hakuna Matata is a 2000 MK II and we love it. We have had it 4 years and done some upgrades. Bimini and dodger are not a big deal. Check the engine and heat exchanger / riser area. If it is just you and your wife it is perfect size.
This site is perfect to help with any issues. It is a boat and 15 years old do there will be some.
Brian
Thanks for all the advice. Please keep it coming. I should have mentioned already, the boat is hull #1535.
I will check the critical upgrades again once I have some time to sit down (there are other things I need to do today). The first time I tried to go through it last week, it seemed like rough going because there were a lot of things that were not specific to later model boats. IIRC, there were also some things that were more maintenance than upgrades. Is there a quick way to filter down to the items for later hull numbers? Or, if you want to spoon feed me, post links of the appropriate posts.
One of my biggest concerns is just that the boat has sat unused for two winters and a full sailing season. Things dry out and leave residue, rubber part get hard and crack, etc. Are there some generic things that I can expect to happen? A good surveyor should be able to pick these things up, but this group's knowledge is more specific.
I assume that a new raw water impeller is a given. Is there a list here showing part number for routine things like this.
Broker has given me a list of recommended surveyors, but I've been warned about using the broker's recommendation. So a surveyor recommendation for the Annapolis, MD area would be very helpful.
I may delay an offer until going to see the boat a second time (with critical upgrade list in hand). Due to work schedule, that would be next Friday or Saturday. Not sure yet.
Quote from: SPembleton on May 29, 2016, 05:34:58 AM
Did you check out the Critical Upgrades section of this site? The alternator bracket, wiring harness and traveler through bolt upgrades are critical, but also provide you with an insight to how well the owner has been maintaining their boat. When i bought my boat three years ago, 2 of the 3 were done, and it was a key to other issues.
It's a Mark II, so alternator bracket and traveler are NOT issues. Harness? Always. But Mark IIs all had voltmeters.
Quote from: SecondWind on May 28, 2016, 09:09:02 PM
There were two significant cosmetic issues: 1) The dodger and bimini were not serviceable - severely yellowed Eisenglass that was cracked in places with many zippers that had become unstitched, and 2) a lot of crazing on all the acrylic hatches - both the horizontal ones and the opening side ports. The broker said that there is a guy up the road who replaces Eisenglass and restitches at very low cost with only a couple hours wait. My response will be, "OK, since it's so easy, please have that done before the surveyor comes." >>>>>>>>>>>Regarding the crazing on the hatches, while I wish it had not happened, I assume it's normal for a boat this age, and I've seen some websites showing how to polish it out. I'm not going to ask seller to do anything about that, instead it will go on my own list (unless you guys suggest otherwise).
Dodger glass: you might try that, but it's rare. Not before survey. Use it to negotiate the price after you've decided. Find out the value of having it done right, not by the cheapest guy around.
Hatches are normal as Jim mentioned. You could get pricing for this too. Select Plastics does it all the time, lens replacement for the big hatches. The Lewmar opening portlights are a different matter, but SP might do these, too.
Quote from: SecondWind on May 29, 2016, 07:17:28 AM
I will check the critical upgrades again once I have some time to sit down (there are other things I need to do today). The first time I tried to go through it last week, it seemed like rough going because there were a lot of things that were not specific to later model boats. IIRC, there were also some things that were more maintenance than upgrades. Is there a quick way to filter down to the items for later hull numbers? Or, if you want to spoon feed me, post links of the appropriate posts.
There are only four pages. Print them out and then read them at your leisure. Cross off the ones for only Mark I boats, which are most of them. IIRC, hard starting because of the circuit with the glow plugs is one. Not too sure of any others. Shows what a great boat it is. :D
Quote from: SecondWind on May 29, 2016, 07:17:28 AM
I assume that a new raw water impeller is a given. Is there a list here showing part number for routine things like this.
In the wiki. This is routine maintenance, don't sweat it now.
Quick question for any of you in the Chesapeake Bay area:
What's a rough cost (materials and labor) for a boatyard to paint a C34MkII? The boat I'm considering has had most of the bottom paint removed, and definitely needs it. Owner says he will take the boat to Maine if it does not sell by his deadline, so he will need bottom paint anyway. I plan to ask him to have the yard do it before survey/sea trial since then we would not have to re-haul it to do it afterwards. Just in case it become a negotiation, I'd like a rough idea of the cost.
On my C250 I've always painted my own bottom, so only incurred cost was a gallon of paint. I have no idea how this would translate to a pro job with a C34. I assume it's about two gallons of paint, but don't really know labor rates.
I had all my dodger glass replaced with strato glass about 2 years ago for $700. The work was very high quality.
Quote from: marksutherland on May 29, 2016, 05:58:39 PM
I had all my dodger glass replaced with strato glass about 2 years ago for $700. The work was very high quality.
Thank you for that helpful and timely information. It really helps me with adjusting my offer for potential "as is/where is" acceptance proposal.
That's the same reason I'm looking for a ballpark estimate for a bottom job.
Quote from: SecondWind on May 29, 2016, 05:56:15 PM
Quick question for any of you in the Chesapeake Bay area:
What's a rough cost (materials and labor) for a boatyard to paint a C34MkII?
I budget $1600 for one coat, $2100 for two coats of bottom paint. Includes haul, splash, environmental fees, parts & labor. In Northern California.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on May 29, 2016, 08:10:25 AM
It's a Mark II, so alternator bracket and traveler are NOT issues. Harness? Always. But Mark IIs all had voltmeters.
OK, now I'm confused. The harness upgrade looks like it is not needed for 1993 model year and later:
QuoteWith the introduction of the 1993 models, there were numerous changes in the harness and panel system, so many in fact that a new style panel carries a label identifying it as a "Type "A" High Efficiency Panel"...
...No boats manufactured prior to the 1993 model year came from the factory with the high efficiency panel. Therefore, all 1992 and earlier models would benefit from the installation of the retrofit kit...
...The upgrade consists of 3 different items depending on your needs. Kit "A" is for 1970's through 1987 model boats, and contains a voltmeter, 2 termstrips, a charging terminal, step-by-step instructions and wiring diagrams (cost: $50). Kit "B" is for 1988 through 1992 boats that already have a voltmeter, and contains all the items mentioned above except the meter (cost: $20).
So why is the harness "always" a problem for 2001 vintage boats?
We just had bottom paint on Hakuna Matata (MKII) done in Feb. this year in San Diego and it was $1500 for the haul, prep and 3 coats of paint.
If you are handy with a sewing machine you can replace the glass in the dodger yourself. The glass is available from SailRite. You will need access to an industrial sewing machine to sew through all the layers. A home machine won't even come close. I did mine about 5-6 years ago and it is still looking good. It only gets Vermont sun for 4-5 months a year. Your mileage will vary in the south.
I just got done redoing the bottom on Footloose. Had it soda blasted. Great way to get it done. I was able to cover the bottom with one gallon of Interprotect 2000e as a barrier coat. Repeat four times.
Then top coated with anti-fouling paint. I was able to do it myself. If the weather cooperates, you can do this in a day and a half. I did have some tendonitis in my wrist after rolling on all the paint. You also have to have a yard that allows do it yourself work.
By the way, We love this boat. I think if you pull the trigger you will be happy!
I am used to doing it myself, including bottom paint on my current boat. But in this case I think I need to hire it out. The boat is 3+ hours away from my home, and there would be housing costs for a multi-day trip. Also, I'd be on the hook for yard storage costs while I'm doing this work. So I think I'm going to have it done for me.
The boat has been almost stripped of bottom paint. I don't think it's clean as soda blasting would have it, but there's more white than blue showing. Not sure why the owner did this, but it was done recently, because there's less paint on it than in the listing pictures.
I need to discuss the paint with the broker, since the boat should not go into the water for sea trial without bottom paint. That means painting it before I own it, which means it needs to be worked out with the owner. It just does not make sense to get a nice, clean, dry hull wet with salt water before painting it. If the owner fails to sell it by his deadline and takes the boat ~700 miles to his new location, he's going to need bottom paint anyway.
FYI, I did not see any sign of barrier coat under the paint, but I don't think it's needed for vinylester resin. I've never heard any reports of blisters on boats made after Catalina switched chemistry. My 1998 vintage C250 has no blisters, and no barrier coat. I did not see any signs of blisters on this boat.
I've done a little sewing for my current boat, but have neither the skills or equipment to do this job myself. So that will be hired out also.
DIY jobs have a way of taking longer than expected, and these are two things the I'd like to have done ASAP before/after taking posession.
FYI, last night I sent messages to the broker that I want to make an offer, but have not heard back from her yet.
Offer is placed verbally. Waiting for YBAA documents to sign to place it formally.
Quote from: SecondWind on May 29, 2016, 10:05:22 PM
OK, now I'm confused. The harness upgrade looks like it is not needed for 1993 model year and later:
So why is the harness "always" a problem for 2001 vintage boats?
The harness is always an issue on any boat because of
the connectors. Trailer connectors or Gummy Bears, take your pick. While I don't have a Mark II, I am pretty sure they exist, unless the factory started building them with hard wired connectors, which I doubt.
Any Mark II skippers out there? :D
Good luck on the purchasing process. We had a Catalina 25 SRFK for 13 years before we bought our 34.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on May 30, 2016, 12:10:04 PM
The harness is always an issue on any boat because of the connectors. Trailer connectors or Gummy Bears, take your pick. While I don't have a Mark II, I am pretty sure they exist, unless the factory started building them with hard wired connectors, which I doubt.
Any Mark II skippers out there? :D
Good luck on the purchasing process. We had a Catalina 25 SRFK for 13 years before we bought our 34.
Thanks for the clarification, Stu. I have seen you on the C25 message board many times.
This sounds to me like the connectors can wear out, so no matter how good the original design was, they need to be checked periodically. Is the correct, or did I misunderstand (again)? Also, not to be dense, but what are Gummy Bears? I've done enough trailering that I have a mental picture of trailer connectors.
Bottom paint:
Why can't the boat be sea trialed without bottom paint? We "day-sail" crane launch big racing boats around here with no bottom paint on them.
Regarding paint costs:
Surprisingly, it looks like we get off cheaper in San Diego (about time we caught a break on something), my yard round-trip haul/launch, bottom job was $1,250 with two coats of Interlux "The Protector" high copper hard paint.
Quote from: SecondWind on May 30, 2016, 12:54:31 PM
This sounds to me like the connectors can wear out, so no matter how good the original design was, they need to be checked periodically. Is the correct, or did I misunderstand (again)? Also, not to be dense, but what are Gummy Bears? I've done enough trailering that I have a mental picture of trailer connectors.
Gummy Bears is a term Ken Kloeber coined. See Critical Upgrades, here's mentioned them a few times there, IIRC. If not, there's always the super search engine, right? :D
I've always done my own bottom painting, so I can't reference any invoices. However, I did find one quote of $21/ft. in the Annapolis area for haul, wash, prep, paint, and launch.
I have a 2000 MkII, hull# 1471 that I purchased in 2012. I've made a lot of upgrades since, but nothing that kept me from sailing. I keep it just south of Annapolis in Mayo. Incidentally, I traded up from a Catalina 250 wing keel also.
I'd be happy to compare notes if you want to contact me directly: mdforester at verizon.net
Thanks, Dave. That rate is a good reference point. I'll call the marina tomorrow and get their rates. For our revised offer we've taken out the request that they paint the near-bare bottom. It simplifies the ownership logistics, and allows us to control paint selection and other quality issues. Unless I get other advice, we'll do sea trial without paint, then haul her back out to await the surveyor's report and to get insurance finalized prior to closing.
Since I've always been a DIY type, I'll consider maybe painting myself, but if I can get a rate of $21/ft or less (since boat will already be on the hard) I might just have the yard do it this time to expedite things. We'll see.
I plan to move her to Rock Hall when we take possession, so we'll be across the bay from you. I've spent a lot of time in your area, though. As a kid I spent summers with my grandparents in Deale, and also last summer my friend gave me and my wife full use of her Mason 44 in Galesville. She quickly became my BFF ;-) But frankly, we like Catalinas better for bay sailing, because Masons really are meant to go a thousand miles in one direction. The Bay is a little too narrow for them. :lol:
I used a surveyor in the Annapolis area this past Dec, he came highly recommended and did a very detailed job, Robert Noyce.
I bought a 1986 C34 hull #42 and have been doing a number of projects, this forum has been a valuable resource. The boat is currently on the hard for thru hull & bottom paint. I was quoted $13 per ft plus paint cost, they said it will take 1 1/2 gallons.
It seems like quite a coincidence but any chance your broker's name is Denise? Small world if so... because she was the broker for the 1986 C34 I bought in Jan 2016. She did a fine job representing the PO and Annapolis Yacht Sales made the whole process very easy. She also recommended the Surveyor but I had already been given his name by an old friend that used him a couple times and was very pleased with the detailed report he provided, I would agree based on my experience as well.
Yes, it is Denise.
I had a very nice conversation with Robert Noyce today. I'd love to hire him, but he's booked up for several weeks, and we're trying to move things ahead faster than that. He gave me some other referrals that were very helpful.
In case I forgot to mention on this board, my offer was accepted today and I'm pulling together insurance quote, possible financing, etc...
Congrats on the boat.
The Marina I am currently using was referred by Robert, it seems he is very well known in the Annapolis area.
I can say this site has been very very helpful in both doing research and also getting a variety of opinions about items specific to the C34. Catalina Direct has also been very helpful because they carry a large number of parts at reasonable prices.
I will second the congrats on the boat and also the value of this site. People are very knowledgeable and patient with questions from inexperienced people like me.
Off the top of my head, I can think of two items on the MkII that Westerbeke put out bulletins on. One is the missing collar on the raw water pump engine mount. If you remove the pump from the engine and look inside the engine fitting, you should see a collar around the shaft that turns the pump. The spindle that has a groove on the end that fits into the raw water pump should have a collar around it. You need to look inside because the collar is way inside. The other bulletin was that the fuel bracket could develop a crack. Mine did, and Westerbeke sent a new bracket. If the collar is missing, they will send one of those too. Other than those two, I can't think of anything else related to the MkII's. The other things like wiring harness, etc. are not related. Those are for the earlier MkI model C34's. If the boat surveys well, she is a good solidly built boat that will give you years of enjoyment.
Congrats on the boat. We have had a MKII #1517 since 2012 and love it. Lots of upgrades from Bimini, new dodger to solar and folding prop. A great boat to sail and cruise with. This site is awesome to get advice and good directions.
Brian
Hi everyone,
We closed on the boat on Friday and moved her from Deale to Rock Hall, MD on Saturday. Things have been a little hectic since then, but I will become a regular contributor here once things settle down. I'll have many questions (I'll try to always search past messages first before asking), and maybe some suggestions for inexpensive modifications.
The boat I got is a real beauty with many systems replaced. It did come at a premium price, but I hope that total cost of ownership will be reduced with all the replacements that have already been done.
Only thing that has failed so far is the autopilot, but it was a dry-rotted drive belt that is easily replaced for $20 (on order). If that's all that goes wrong this season I will be very very happy.
If you know anyone who wants to downsize, or is just getting started with their first boat, I have a pristine C250 Wing Keel model for sale.
Congratulations, I had seen her in the lot at HHN a number of times, glad to see she has a new home.
Enjoy,
Steve
What's the original name on the boat when you bought her? Are you naming her Breakin' Away?
Congrats Rick,
I hope you get at least as much fun, use, and pleasure out of your C34 as we do.
We moved up from our C250 Swing keel last year, spent a few boat bucks on her but she is really starting to show that we care.
See you on the water.
Paul & Peggy Alcock
(britinusa)
Hi Paul, nice to see you over here. Your presence in the C25 forum has been missed. I had remembered that you moved up to a C34, so I'm not surprised to see you here.
The boat's current name is Bonus, which I don't like at all. She is USCG documented, and since we borrowed money the lender requires what we renew the documentation. We are changing her name to Breakin' Away. For the rest of this season she is at Rock Hall Landing Marina, which we chose for quicker access to the Chesapeake vs. the marinas in Swan Creek.