What a great day! Winds were in the 20-25 knot range today and we were consistently doing above 7 knots upwind. Coming back on a broad reach and surfing down the waves we hit 8.1 knots on the GPS. It was only for a second, but it counts in my book :)
I noticed that the mast was shifting a little at the entry point thru the deck. Not a lot but definitely some noticeable movement. I have a rubber collar on it but it obviously has a little give. I have never owned a keel stepped boat before so I do not know if this is normal or acceptable. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
Greg
Perhaps a silly question from my part, but since you mention never having a keel stepped boat... is the mast "blocked" at the through deck opening? If not, it should be adequately blocked so that it is centered side to side and fore/aft to be as vertical as possible at this point of the mast. There should be no movement at the deck level. As far as I know.
I don't know if mast movement at the deck is normal or not, but I haven't noticed any movement with our mast in the 4-5 sails we've had since our purchase. However, there are some wooden shims between the mast and cabin top that are noticeable when looking up at the mast/deck joint from in the cabin. Maybe these were installed by a previous owner to stop movement (or get better alignment or both).
Greg,
The collar that you see is the Mast Boot. It keeps the rain out (most of it anyway) but has no structural function. There shouldn't be noticeable movement at the deck collar. (aka "the partners") Unless you are talking about a rubber like substance that is solid in between the collar on the boat and the mast. If so you have Spartite - but I doubt it. You'll need to make up some hardwood wedges to place fore and aft and side to side to hold the mast in place as it transitions through the deck. It' not to hard but I'm still struggling to get the right wedge combination for our boat after a couple of years!
Good luck.
DDS
I agree about there not being any movement at the partners, the through-deck hole.
After several years of frustration with the mast wedges, I finally went the Spartite route and was glad I did. No more worries about wedges falling out and it was more watertight. It still required a bead of sealant but once that was done there was no leaking. Installation was not all that difficult. We were worried about it coming out the first time when the mast was unstepped but fortunately we put enough Vaseline around the partners that the mast was not permanently attached to the boat.
Greg : A number of years back I had to remove the mast and did some rewiring and installed a TV antenna. The wedges were also popping out so here's what I did :
I took out one of the 4 wedges and made 6 more slightly larger out of oak. After the mast was in place I reinstalled the 6 wedges and "helped them in place" with taps of a hammer.
Slid the boot back down, caulked all around and have never had a problem!! :D
A thought
Thanks all for the comments. I am not sure if what I have is spartite, but it is a hard rubber substance that goes between the mast and the boat. It was cut on one end so that it could be wrapped around the mast (rather than having to shimmy it up from the bottom. I noticed when I put it in that it doesn't quite come together at the split. My guess is that this gap is producing the slack that allows the movement. I will try and wedge something in to make it tighter.
Greg
Greg,
From the sounds of things, you have a mast boot. It is common for them to be split so you don't have to pull the mast and shimmy the boot up from the bottom as you suggested. A mast boot looks like the first picture.
Spartite is likely to be approximately flush with the deck collar. It is a very think liquid that is poured between the mast and the deck collar that solidifies and serves to prevent mast movement at the deck. It is semi permanent and is more commonly used by those who rarely step their masts although, as claygr said, many have great success by coating the deck collar with vaseline to allow the mast to slip out to be stepped. The second picture shows Spartite.
As I think you can tell from the photo of the mast boot, it does not get into the space between the mast and the deck opening. The boot attaches to the mast and then the deck collar. It sounds as though you have some other material in that deck opening space. I have read about owners using innertube material wrapped around the mast, so maybe it is something similar? Spartite has no elasticity when it cures so I don't think you would describe it as "rubber."
I would either use the traditional mast wedges with a PVC boot or go the Spartite route. Either way should eliminate movement at the mast through the deck opening and eliminate water getting into the boat in the space between the mast and the deck opening. As for water getting into the boat down the inside of the mast, let me know if you ever figure out how to prevent that from happening.
Ron
QuoteGreg : A number of years back I had to remove the mast and did some rewiring and installed a TV antenna. The wedges were also popping out so here's what I did :
I took out one of the 4 wedges and made 6 more slightly larger out of oak. After the mast was in place I reinstalled the 6 wedges and "helped them in place" with taps of a hammer.
Slid the boot back down, caulked all around and have never had a problem!! Very Happy
Time for a couple of "Stupid Steve" questions.
You mentioned sliding the boot back down after positioning the wedges. When the marina pulled my mast last year (I couldn't get my boat up river to my club) I didn't see the wedges removed. My attachment ring for my boom vang on the mast is riveted to the mast and just above the top of the mast boot. I can't slide the boot up to put wedges in from the top so I had to tap them up from the bottom. Yes, it was a battle all year keeping them up in there.
My boot turned out to be brittle and cracked but I didn't want to step the mast to put on my new boot from Catalina Direct so I goobered it up with a tube of stuff. Now I'm going to step the mast, install the new boot next spring but I'm still perplexed about the wedges because my boot can't be slid up the mast to wedge then lower it back down unless I remove the boom vang eye and either try to rivet back or thread the mast and screw it in place. I know the attachment ring on the boom is a "boom vang tang, but what about the mast attachment ring?" Just wondering.
Thanks in advance
Steve
visit us at www.ocontoyachtclub.com (http://www.ocontoyachtclub.com) and www.warbirdsix.com (http://www.warbirdsix.com)
Hi Steve,
If you have to install them from inside, ending up, upside down.
Once you have them inserted, why you don't just wrap a rubber band 1/4 thick x 1'' wide around the mast under the shim that would prevent them from sliding down, and put a collar on top of the rubber to hold this one on the mast.
Just an idea.
Not a stupid question at all. We had the same problem - the mast boot would not slide up because of the vang fitting. One alternative would be to cut the mast boot in half so it can be taken off and replaced - the problem there is that it will not be as watertight. But that would allow you to tap the wedges in from the top, which I think is the only way to keep them in place. This annoyance is the reason we ultimately went with Spartite.
Steve : If you are going to remove the mast next spring, here is what I did:
My boom vang foot plate is threaded and then bolted in place. So I removed the vang, the foot plate and boom. Then unscrewed the 2 bolts for the eye for the bottom main sheet block and slid it up the mast and taped it in place. The mast boot can then be slid up after the "hose clamp" is removed. (I have always had a Sunbrella cover [Mainsheet tech article early 1990s] to keep my mast boot out of the hot sun). Don't forget that you have to unbolt an identical eye in the mast track, for the deck hold down inside. And also don't forget that that hold down eye has to slide down the mast to remove the mast!! (also remember that that hold down eye must be threaded into the base on the track on the nast as the mast is slowly lowered back into the boast !!)
Clear as mud? Hope this helps.
Wow Ron, now I really feel stupid. I think I followed all you said but the eye on the aft-bottom of my mast that my vang connects to I do believe is riveted, not screwed or bolted, in place. Not sure about the main sheet blocks you speak of. I'll check tonight when I get back over to the boat. I really prefer not to cut my new boot as it's made of LDPE and quite rigid. I'll try to find the sunbrella article to see how to make a cover as I have a walking foot sewing machine and binding feeder.
Maybe I'll take a pic.
Thanks for all
Steve
Steve: Drill out the rivets then drill & tap the holes for a fine thread machine screw. That will let you move the eye any time you want. My mast comes down every year so I have worked those screws alot.
No problems, and mine never had rivets...Easy fix !
Thanks Phil
I'll check into doing that.
Steve
visit us at www.ocontoyachtclub.com (http://www.ocontoyachtclub.com) and www.warbirdsix.com (http://www.warbirdsix.com)
Steve : The "eyes" that Phil and I are talking about in the 1988 boats are bolted and not riveted, and I suspect that your may also bolted.
Who ever installed your ridged vang could have rivet the foot, but like Phil said it is easy to drill out the rivets and tape in an thread for bolts.
A few thoughts
I can confirm that our vang "eye" also was riveted in place on hull #873.
This is mine riveted in.
Is mine lower than most others??? I didn't notice it went down below the boot.
If I drill it out, tap the holes, I'll still have to either move it up or notch the boot to be able to tighten it back in place after putting in the wedges and the boot...... :-/
Steve
You can do it from below, just get a short piece of line about the size of the space.
One or two turns, taped in tight as you go around.
Steve : Sorry as I was wrong. Looking back I'll guess that it was the riggers at the dealers that prepared the mast and booms.
In your case they pop riveted - in my case they drilled and taped!!
Anyway, if you are pulling the mast that eye can stay in place. Just remove the "hose clamp" from around the base of the mast boot, and leave it on the mast when it's pulled. Then replace the old boot with a new boot while the mast is out and caulk the new boot in place when the mast is back in the boat.
I'm not too sure that it's wise to try putting in wedges from the bottom - not sure they'll stay in place.
A few thoughts
Ron
Thanks for the help. I understand how I can replace the boot with the mast out. My problem is that with that vang eye in place I can't lower the mast to rest on the mast keel collar and still be able to slide the boot higher on the mast to be able to put the wedges in from the top. The wedges were. in fact, put in from the bottom this year do to this quandary and I've fought all season repositioning them as they would fall out under certain conditions.
My goal, if possible, is to be able to position the mast on the keel, wedge it centered, the put the new boot down over the opening and finally still have the boom vang functional.
Thanks again
Steve
visit us at www.ocontoyachtclub.com (http://www.ocontoyachtclub.com) and www.warbirdsix.com (http://www.warbirdsix.com)
Steve : Then do as I have already suggested:
Drill out the Pop Rivets and move the vang eye and the vang foot up when the mast is removed so you can replace the boot.
Now when the mast is re-stepped, it will set all the way down in the mast step shoe. When all is settled you'll have to drill some new holes above the mast boot for the vang eye and the vang foot.
A thought
Steve: you may want to think about moving the eye up about an inch. But, moving the eye or not, flathead machine screws that fit almost flush with the eye will let you fit the eye behind the boot. Seal around the eye & go sailing.
Steve, our boats may have both come from the same dealer, Sail Place, at about the same time, which would explain why we both have riveted vang eyes. Our eye was about in the same position as yours, just above the mast boot.
It shouldn't be too hard to drill out the rivets and then replace with machine screws. The aluminum in the mast is pretty soft. The only concern I might have is holding strength of the machine screws but that doesn't seem to be a problem based on what others are reporting.
Clay
I plan on moving it up some. Actually it appears to set inside the sail track. If it truly does, It could probably be held im place by a small stop above and below. If it does fit in there it could very well only need to be held up or down in position. My Allmand's boom fitting moved in the track and when the sail was down it rested on a stop that was just tightened in place below it.
Steve