First, I've studied over and over the wiring diagrams obtained by searching for Alternator wiring. Three diagrams drawn by Stu I studied but still can't relate.
My Goal: Route my Alt charging circuit directly to my bat 1 to avoid any accidental disruption while switching batteries resulting in Alt damage. At this time, no upgrade of Alt (23yrs of deferred maintenance at the house cut into boat funds for summer.)
Presently, charge + output of Alt goes over to starter and shares a stud with the heavy wire going up to C post on OEM switch.
note: OEM switches 1 & 2 both go to 1-2-B switches for a total of 4 batteries.
The wire leaving the Alt has a tap (like the old 3M connecters that routes a + to some gray thing that also has a ground wire on it> WTH is that???? noise suppressor or something??? That is between the Alt and starter.
Questions:
If I run a cable from the Alt to battery 1, switch 1 and then use switches to distribute output underway do I need abandon the attachment to starter? Will the redundancy of Alt --> Battery1 + post with still connecting to starter cause a problem, i.e. two paths to the same destinations???
I don't know if my OEM switch is a make, then break style but I would like to avoid make, break switches, combiners, isolators and other electronic components an, at least for now, use the KISS method.
That gray thing still bothers me, anyone know what it is??? Could it be an alien tracking devise? Or, the NSA tracking me???? If it is, this hard drive needs to crash and get recycled promptly.
Any help on this is really appreciated! Sorry for the remedial questions
Steve
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Steve, those diagrams were for replacing a regulator.
The alternator wiring discussions, from Electrical 101, are these:
Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html
This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=137615
This one explains the connector between the alternator and starter:
OEM 1-2-B Switch Wiring History http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.msg30101.html#msg30101
Thank you Stu, those are going to be very helpful. I still haven't figured out what that grey thing tapped into my AO line between the Alt and the starter is though. I'll try to take a pic and post it as I'm not the best at describing things. My concern is weather I should let it in the loop, dead end the original AO wire at it and take my new wire directly to the house battery. It is tapped into the wire between the AO and starter but the current doesn't go through it. It's got me baffled, but that isn't too hard to do.
Steve
Once you take the AO to the house bank, you don't want anything connecting the AO to anything BUT the house bank, so any connections to anything else have to go. You're right, a picture would help, but your description was very good.
Stu, and all;
This is the gray thing that is tapped into the AO wire that runs to my starter.
you can see the yellow connector that is like a heavier version of the old 3M connecters
Quote from: stevewitt1 on July 22, 2014, 08:34:20 PM
Stu, and all;
the yellow connector that is like a heavier version of the old 3M connecters
The "yellow connectors" there and elsewhere should go. Clean up the wire ends to brite copper, and install marine grade, heat shrink terminals -- trash those automobile" terminals -- before you have a corrosion/continuity/no charge/no start problem.
Likewise, the engine panel ground on the exhaust manifold nut is a terrible place where Universal put it. Options:
Run the grnd to the bell housing bolt (with the neg battery cable,) along with a heavy ground from the alternator frame ground.
OR
Run the heavy ground cable to the bell housing, and put the panel ground on the Alt B- post.
OR better yet,
Install a negative buss terminal strip nearby, a heavy cable from it to the bell housing. Then tie your grounds (alternator frame, panel ground, bilge pump, etc.) into that buss strip, and eliminate the neg returns back to the distribution panel, along with the inherent voltage loss.
~KWK
Ken's right about your options.
I have no idea what that gray (grey, to you) thing is. It would help if you could tell us what the whole word is that's written on it.
Electrical noise filter??
Something like this?
That thing under it is interesting. Is that plastic bottle some sort of support structure?
Thanks All!
I will work on the grounding improvement. I agree about the strange yellow connector.
The plastic bottle.......is a shield the PO must have installed. It appears to just prevent an area of hose that may have been vulnerable to chaffing.
Thank You to all for the help and advise
Steve
What does the rest of the label/writing on the mysterious gray thing say, in addition to "...ger"?
Quote from: stevewitt1 on July 23, 2014, 08:29:58 AM
Thanks All!
I will work on the grounding improvement. I agree about the strange yellow connector.
The plastic bottle.......is a shield the PO must have installed. It appears to just prevent an area of hose that may have been vulnerable to chaffing.
Thank You to all for the help and advise
Steve
Steve, the yellow connector isn't unusual at all, it's just a nylon-insulated, "Stake-on" (brand name) type terminal, rather than adhesive heat shrink. It's yellow because it's for 10-12 AWG wire (blue for 14-16 AWG; red for 16-18, or 8 AWG cable.)
FWIW dept, those nylon ones use a "double-crimp" type crimper (crimps the wire and the wire support in one stroke.) Adhesive-heat-shrink terminals need a "single-crimp" type crimper. Do not use a double on a single type terminal, or you'll compromise the adhesive heat shrink protection.
-KWK
Ohhhhhh, duuuuuh. Are you talking about the 'other'yellow doo-dad? Pic isn't clear enuf to make it out - looks like a parallel tap maybe. Unable to make out clearly what else goes to it.
BTW most don't that there are also heat shrink parallel connetors available if you need to make a splice - as well as other 'sealed' options.
KWK
Quote from: KWKloeber on July 23, 2014, 12:44:41 PM
Quote from: stevewitt1 on July 23, 2014, 08:29:58 AM
Thanks All!
I will work on the grounding improvement. I agree about the strange yellow connector.
The plastic bottle.......is a shield the PO must have installed. It appears to just prevent an area of hose that may have been vulnerable to chaffing.
Thank You to all for the help and advise
Steve
Steve, the yellow connector isn't unusual at all, it's just a nylon-insulated, "Stake-on" (brand name) type terminal, rather than adhesive heat shrink. It's yellow because it's for 10-12 AWG wire (blue for 14-16 AWG; red for 16-18, or 8 AWG cable.)
FWIW dept, those nylon ones use a "double-crimp" type crimper (crimps the wire and the wire support in one stroke.) Adhesive-heat-shrink terminals need a "single-crimp" type crimper. Do not use a double on a single type terminal, or you'll compromise the adhesive heat shrink protection.
-KWK
Her All!
The full word on the greay thingy is RANGER
Steve
Google: ranger electric noise suppressors. Once you get past the gun supressors you'll find it.
Thanks Stu,
I did just that last night. After realizing the NSA is now probably dialed in on me from that search I did see the noise suppressors. I didn't thing a diesel had that much ignition noise to warrant a suppressor. (just kidding)
Steve
Quote from: stevewitt1 on July 24, 2014, 11:32:27 AM
Thanks Stu,
I did just that last night. After realizing the NSA is now probably dialed in on me from that search I did see the noise suppressors. I didn't thing a diesel had that much ignition noise to warrant a suppressor. (just kidding)
Steve,
NRA in addition to NSA! :D Darn those noisy diesels, if you're not careful they'll shoot you right in the head if you're with the VP! :cry4`
Can't tell if the noise suppressor is connected to the alternator output. The PO might have had noise in his stereo and thought that was the culprit. ITWMB, I would have put a ferrite on the radio, not the alternator. Who knows why it was installed in the first place. You could simply bypass the wiring, fire things up and see if it makes any difference to anything you have on board. Then you can trash it.
I'm sure it dates back to the earlier days of Loran when supposedly the equipment was sensitive to "noise".
Chalk it up to companies marketing aftermarket trash.
Hey, Aldo, I resemble that remark! :thumb:
I'm old enough to have had a sailboat before Loran C, bought one of the newer and fabulous West Marine, easy-to-use models, and then had the pleasure of removing the HUGE Micrologic 800 something from our boat. I shoulda saved it as a museum piece! :clap Heck, maybe I have a picture of it.
We could change the title of this thread to add: "...and Old/Ancient Loran C Pictures"
What was the name of the old Magellan unit that was bigger than the old WWII walkie-talkies?
Then there was early GPS with ONLY numbers. Yeesh, you hadda use a chart!
Those were the days, my friend. :D
Hey Stu........You're showing your youth!!!
I flew my C172 from NE Wisconsin to Panama City, FL long before the days of GPS and it was very early Loran. When we arrived in Fl we drove to Mexico Beach and fished the Gulf with one of my passengers brother. His 26' boat was a electronic marvel. It was a Loran with ONLY Grid and TD numbers in the two rows of I believe Cold Cathode tubes or better known as Nixie Tubes. Back when I built my 26' sailboat we had a wet compass and chart, that's it.
Wow, have things changed...LOL
Steve
Quote from: stevewitt1 on July 21, 2014, 09:34:45 PM
Presently, charge + output of Alt goes over to starter and shares a stud with the heavy wire going up to C post on OEM switch.
note: OEM switches 1 & 2 both go to 1-2-B switches for a total of 4 batteries.
Some PO's do really, really, really stoopid :shock: things. Lose the extra switches. One large contiguous house bank on selector post #1 and one start/reserve battery on post #2. If you want to make charging easier wire in an Echo Charger or ACR between banks.
The gray thing looks like a capacitor and I have no idea why it would be there but if we look at the PO's switch configuration it is safe to say he was a Rube Goldberg fan....
Rx:
*Remove to extra batt switches
*Make house bank one contiguous hard wired bank
*Wire alt to house bank with a fuse at 150% of the alts output rating within 7" of the house bank + post.
*Install a service disconnect switch for the alt in the engine bay to de-energize it when servicing the engine.
*Run alt ground wire same size as positive direct to house neg bus..
Quote from: mainesail on July 25, 2014, 04:57:06 AM
*Run alt ground wire same size as positive direct to house neg bus..
One thing I might add is that both Neg Alt B- / Pos Alt B+ really need to be upsized (probably #10 now) to 8 AWG (or 6 AWG like you like to use due to crimping.) BTW RC, I would a very cool crimper for 8 AWG FTZ starter lugs.
Cheers,
Ken
I am ready to install my new Balmar 120 amp alternator and wonder if anyone has found a short and easy path for the AO cable. The best I can find is to drill another hole outboard of the engine bed in front of the existing hole used by the pair of cooling hoses and insert a grommet. Theoretically there is ample space beneath the galley sole for more wires.
If I have this right, the 2/0 AO will run to the bank, a 2/0 ground wire to the block and a new 2/0 ground back to the bank. The alt is ungrounded and requires the extra ground. The 2/0 size is based on the estimated wire run and is perhaps a bit oversized. The existing AO cable will remain but only run from the starter to the panel switch on 2 to be connected to a starting or reserve battery.
Looking for a route. Thanks
I installed #2, NOT #2/0 for a 100A alternator. 2/0 is waaaay overkill. The routing is simple: under the engine bed, no holes to drill - two wire clothes hangers will do it for you to push or pull 'em through.
Thanks Stu. I hope I wasn't sounding obtuse. My alternator salesman recommended the larger wire and I wasn't even buying the wire from him. I figured the only harm is to my wallet and I will have way less than a 3% drop.
As to the route foreword, my 1996 engine pan has no openings toward the front but I can drill through the port bulkhead into the space below the head sink and access the bilges from there. I will also mount my regulator in the same space although this year's (1996) access door is too tight to reach through to easily work inside. I need a twelve year old electrician. lol
I am gradually whipping this boat into shape having removed all the loose Romex wire, taped twisted wire connections, wire nuts and other scary things. My wash down pump works like a champ, the head is rebuilt and summer is ending soon. We will get one 2 week cruise this year and hopefully something longer in 2015.
When I measured the length for the new wiring on my ~100a alternator (going and returning) to my 4-6v batteries mounted in the settee forward of the sink, the size charts recommended 2/0.
Anything less would have the voltage drop above 3%.
But maybe I messed up and over did it?
Quote from: lazybone on July 31, 2014, 12:51:12 PM
When I measured the length for the new wiring on my ~100a alternator (going and returning) to my 4-6v batteries mounted in the settee forward of the sink, the size charts recommended 2/0.
Anything less would have the voltage drop above 3%.
But maybe I messed up and over did it?
What length is the run?
At 100-amp current,
#2 AWG loses 0.032 volts or 0.27% per foot of cable.
#00 AWG loses 0.016 volts or 0.13% per foot.
-ken
Quote from: KWKloeber on July 31, 2014, 02:54:30 PM
Quote from: lazybone on July 31, 2014, 12:51:12 PM
When I measured the length for the new wiring on my ~100a alternator (going and returning) to my 4-6v batteries mounted in the settee forward of the sink, the size charts recommended 2/0.
Anything less would have the voltage drop above 3%.
But maybe I messed up and over did it?
What length is the run?
At 100-amp current,
It was a long time ago but I remember something a bit over 20', so 2/0 wasn't outrageous.
#2 AWG loses 0.032 volts or 0.27% per foot of cable.
#00 AWG loses 0.016 volts or 0.13% per foot.
-ken