Finally got my keel bolts torqued. I was amazed at the difference in torque values. Couple were right on spec, few were close, a couple were a half turn loose. I noticed the "smile" for the first time on this year. Torqueing didn't seem to close it any. Think they must have blocked the keel incorrectly. Stuffed it with 5200, hopefully it will close when it's refloated.
Anyway, main reason for the note is I am now the proud owner of a keel nut socket (1 1/8 x 4" deep). I will be happy to loan it to anyone that needs to use it.
Ken
Great report.
We will consider you as the EAST COAST KEEL NUT SOCKET resource.
Ray Irvine is the WEST COAST KEEL NUT SOCKET resource, Northern California Division.
Any other volunteers?
Our association now has KEEL NUTS from Coast to Coast 8)
Ken : My socket has been available since 1990!! It's been used by most of the people in Fleet 12 to check their keel bolt nuts. The socket is only half of the tool, as an extension and a "T" handle is also needed.
In fact my tool "system" is over in Harrington Harbor South with Jim Brenner as I type this post!
When I delivered the tool to Jim, another fleet member had his boat (MKII) on the hard at that location. I mentioned that I had the tool and would he like to check his bolts. He wasn't that enthusiastic, but I pointed out it would take less than 15 minutes and it was FREE. We checked his keel bolt nuts and tightened 4!!!! 3 of which turned more than 1 full turn!!! :wink:
Ken,
What's the torque on the nuts? I'm sure it's probably somewhere else here, but as long as it's being discussed I thought I'd ask.
Ray the torque is 105 ftlbs.
Ron I sent you a PM asking about yours. Got no response so I figured you were cruising. Not a big deal, I never turn down an opportunity to add to the tool collection.
Here's a funny story.
One of our older fleet members was talking to me about tightening the keel bolts and I offered him my tool. He said that he didn't need it as he had just checked them right after he was put back in the water. I said ,"you checked the keel bolt tightness in the water?" Couldn't convince him that all of the weight of the keel would negated any check!!
He reminded me of my father who had screwed a zinc into the wooden skag before he put his wooden CrisCraft into a lake that was fresh water!
Guess when you're 80 and + you can do what ever you want!
BTW Catalina recommends 107ftlb of torque. In our tight salon I think it's near impossible to overtorque by hand - unless you hire a 900lb gorilla. :wink:
Does Catalina list two torque values, one for blocked up and one for in the water? Seems like if the weight of the keel was a problem for checking torque at the dock that some smart engineer could figure out the difference to compensate for it, like adding 10% or something.
Otherwise in my experience probably just one tight stud fore and aft would hold the keel up allowing the remaining studs to be torqued without the influence of the keel's weight. I'd almost be willing to bet that a person could back all the nuts off and the keel would be stuck to the bottom of the boat anyway. Am I sticking my foot in my mouth again?
No, not at all Ray. It's just that we're both up past everyone else's bedtime. :wink:
5,000# of metal hanging off the bottom of the boat doesn't float. Seems that simple. No way are we gonna be able to pull any of that up with a few nuts on some bolts.
No difference in torque values - 105 is it, 107 is close. You just need the weight of the boat on the hard and the keel pushing up while being well blocked to be able to "cinch" the two together.
Of course, if the fwd and aft two bolts are tight and the middle ones loose, then one would expect the middle ones to be able to be tightened regardless of where the boat was.
re Ray's comment:
"I'd almost be willing to bet that a person could back all the nuts off and the keel would be stuck to the bottom of the boat anyway. Am I sticking my foot in my mouth again?"
Many years ago, I had the yard lift my Catalina 27 for some keel repair that involved dropping the keel. The nuts were loosened and the keel supported. No need however, as the keel remained squarely in place. Even encouraging the keel with a mallet and other not too subtle methods failed to dislodge it. Ultimately the yard did the repair without dropping the keel.
Ray & Charles : You're correct!
Ref: Removing the keel from the hull.
I checked into this to answer an owner's question a few years back. I couldn't get it out of Catalina, but I accused the factory of using 3M5200. They never denied it.
The only remark I could get out of Gerry Douglas was that "you've never heard of a Catalina loosing it's keel - have you"!!
The recommended procedure from the factory is to get plenty of oak wedges, and 4 strong men with sledge hammers to drive the wedges into the keel/hull joint. This of course is after you removed the keel bolt nuts.
It's alot of work to get them to separate, but if improperly blocked with too much weight in the rear, you will get the SMILE(seperation) in the front!! Especially true of the wing keel. :wink: