Hey gang:
Pictures to follow but, while rebuilding my two Lewmar 46STs and my two Lewmar 30STs, I found that the teeth of the center spindle are deformed to the point that you can't get the spindle out of the top of the winch. I removed the winches to rebuild in my shop anyway (from the look of things, the hardened grease might be original equipment) and all else seems to be in order. I had no indication of any trouble, just doing preventative maintenance, so I don't know that this an issue that has to be fixed.
I'm planning to, at a minimum, grind or file to reduce the diameter to original specs so I can get it out from the top on future rebuilds, but I'm wondering a couple of things:
1) What in the world caused this deformation? It's hard to believe that someone cranked that hard. I've wondered if someone left the winches loaded over time, which is possible I guess, but still shocked it would cause this. The winches are just for halyard use and haven't been left loaded since I've had the boat (about 1.5 years).
2) Am I better off trying to reshape the teeth or leaving them as is?
Pictures to follow.
Here's the pictures...
Mike,
Pics of the mating gears?
They are non Ocean series, correct?
-k
I have Lewmar Wavegrips... they predate the evos and oceans. 1983 to 1991, I believe.
https://www.p2marine.com/lewmar-winch-parts/lewmar-wavegrip-winch-parts/lewmar-wavegrip-30-winch-parts (https://www.p2marine.com/lewmar-winch-parts/lewmar-wavegrip-winch-parts/lewmar-wavegrip-30-winch-parts)
Photos of mating gears attached, although how the stainless gear deformed and not the bronze gear is a mystery to me. Happened on both winches, though.
Rethought the bronze gear deformation and took some more pictures. These show deformation, but still not as much as I'd expect given the amount shown on the stainless teeth.
Mike
Also ck your collets carefully for wear, that let's the drum slop back and forth, you can feel the wear.
Jon, did you rework the new ones? Dremel?
-k
Not yet, life got in the way. Projects are backed up. I plan to use a Dremel to trim the new collets to fit.
Re collets, on my 30's they show no wear. On my 46's they do show wear, so I intend to flip them over. At $77 each, I can't see replacing them. Might trying making or having some made at some point.
Re the tooth deformation, I talked to Lewmar today. They too, were surprised to hear about the deformation on the stainless being greater than on the bronze. Maybe the bronze gears were replaced in the past and the spindle was not. I asked if I was better off letting the clutches hold the load once winched into position and he said that wasn't necessary. I asked about trying to reshape the teeth and he said that, if I couldn't tell when the winch was in use, to just clean up the burrs and decrease the diameter so that I could get the spindle out the top and leave it alone, given the age.
I suspect a crappy batch of annealed 302 stainless sneaked it's way into production.
Quote from: rmbrown on May 21, 2018, 08:10:02 AM
Re collets, on my 30's they show no wear. On my 46's they do show wear, so I intend to flip them over. At $77 each, I can't see replacing them. Might trying making or having some made at some point.
Mike
Au contraire, that's for the OEM collets. you don't want those, the new style are $25.
The problem is the oem collets wear and can snap in half at the weak point where there's the least meat and the most stress. The newer ones are stronger but need a little massaging with a Dremel and square jewelers file using the oem as a template. If Jon had his completed that I sent I'm sure he'd have a pic of the finished product. At $25 each it mey be worth doing before they snap and then you are in the emergency ward.
-k
I'm convinced... Who's making and selling those? You don't mean the collets from the newer winch models, do you?
Different part number than the one used for the new winches.
For the Wave Grip version winch, 15001431 is the new part number to replace the original 15000387 collet. Ken has a source for them.
Mercy. Short memories.
MIke. Remember I'm a Lewmar dealer?
Duh! I had you in my head for hatches but not for winches.
So are these just the collets on today's winches modified a little? Same thickness?
You will need to modify it. In my case I noticed the slot for the collet is worn wider. I went with the new cheaper part because it was cheaper, and because it would allow me to better match the worn slot. I attached a file showing the old and new.
Mike- I have the same problem on my winch. How did you get the spindle out?
T
Unmount it and drop it out the bottom, I'm afraid. Good news is that it's easier to clean the winches off the boat anyway. Kind of messy if it's been a while.
On mine, at least, the two 30STs on the cabintop seem to have captive nuts or tapped plate glassed in.
The 46STs are a bit more painful because the nuts are loose, on mine at least. Three can be reached from the cockpit easily. Two are inside an inspection port over the aft cabin bed. Two are accessible via the lazarette but made easier if you have two elbows in one arm.
Mike, you need a small; human.
More seriously. Was the boat raced extensively; you know those east shore gales. If you do the math on the sail plan, I'd suspect that a 30 and a 46 are barely on the cusp. But sad to report, on production boats a size larger winch means fewer boat sales in Frank's file cabinet. So it's a trade-off whether the boat is day-sailed on an inland lake versus near shore raced 3x a week.
Do yours have Philips head machine screws on the caps? At the end of the run of wavegrips there may have been some production issues, who knows. If they have Philips, they are closer to end rather than beginning stock.
Your options:
Clean them up and drive them into the ground; replace when they go south.
Lewmar also produces "race" winches -- you wouldn't know the difference from appearance. One difference was a better high-end spindle.
Would you want two for your 30s? There probably aren't any left around for the 46s, but could try to locate 'em. The cost would be the same as the old OEM spindle.
They would last you **forever**.
-k
I had small humans but like puppies and kittens, they grew up!
My boat was raced and cruised. I'm not sure how hard he raced but he raced often.
Mine do indeed have 4 Philips screws on top.
I'll clean up and install this weekend, I suppose.
I'll PM you about the replacement spindles.
Finally got back to servicing my Wave Grip series winches and fixing the problem with the feeder arm rotating because the slot for the collet had worn wider through the years.
With a dremel and a metal cutting disc, the new 15001431 collet is very easy to modify to fit the slot in the center stem. A couple photos attached of the old and new modified collets side by side, and the new ones installed to check the screw holes line up. Problem solved.
Nice!