Recent posts

#1

Main Message Board / Re: Keel Bedding Survey

Last post by KWKloeber - Today at 03:42:58 PM

Ron mon ami, are you saying that you have personally witnessed your smile occurring "in one second"?   All I have heard is that it was always claimed to occur over off-season storage, not "immediately."

I wonder how CTY's would square its explanation of the cause with the smile on my keel being at the aft end?  Too much weight on the nose of the keel perhaps?  More CTY fantasy.

I agree that it probably doesn't take an M.E. -- in order to deduce that the hefty hull/keel stub box-beam section (below) between the nose and the first bolt, will not bend in the short distance in front of the first bolt. 

(M.E.s deal with moving objects, eivil/structural engineers deal with
mechanics/statics/strength of materials and stress/strain/bending under load.)
.

#2

Main Message Board / Re: M25XP Flywheel to cranksha...

Last post by britinusa - Today at 03:20:23 PM

Thanks Ken.

DUH!

 

I think that also answers my last question about the Torque setting for the Hex Cap Screws that hold the plate in place.

Paul

#3

Main Message Board / Re: Sourcing a Damper Plate

Last post by britinusa - Today at 03:14:38 PM

I know this topic is nearly 4 years old but still relevant.

I have my new damper plate and it fits. However Took a bit of Googling, but I think I found the correct torque for the Hex Cap Screws that secure the damper plate to the flywheel.

The screws are    "298458   M5 x 12 Cap screw Din 912"

I found one resource indicating that the torque should be 10Nm.

I'll have to get a torque wrench for that. I have a digital torque driver up to 6Nm and a larger one but not 10Nm.

Just wondered if anyone could confirm the 10Nm Torque setting.

Paul

#4

Main Message Board / Re: Keel Bedding Survey

Last post by Ron Hill - Today at 02:17:02 PM

Guys : It doesn't take a Mechanical Engineer to have a travel lift operator set the boat down and improperly set the hull so you have a "Catalina Smile" in a second!! All he has to do is set the keel on the ground and let the hull rock back!!   

A thought

 

#5

Main Message Board / Re: Keel Bedding Survey

Last post by KWKloeber - Today at 01:54:51 PM

Mark

Just for context 'fer others I think you are referring to
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,11903.msg97457.html#msg97457

not
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,11903.msg97563.html#msg97563
(which links pertain to deterioration aft, not a fwd smile (which I did not have,) and my prior experience rebedding the keel joint material.)

-ken

Previous info about my "no aft smile" and the loose aft nut (in no particular order):

I think that the only way you will really know the answer to this question is if you have a mechanical engineering friend. Knowing that type, turn it into some kind of bet and offer them a case of their favorite beverage so they do a "Finite element analysis" of the keel/hull joint blocked in the front or blocked fore and aft.

Logic dictates that the bolt isn't stretching, but the piece of keel that sticks out forward of the forward most keel bolt can bend. I'm not saying it does bend, I'm saying it "could". FEA (finite element analysis) would tell you exactly how much force you would need to create a "smile"

Mark
Mola Mola

#6

Main Message Board / Re: Keel Bedding Survey

Last post by girmann - Today at 12:25:37 PM

Previous info about my "no aft smile" and the loose aft nut (in no particular order):

I think that the only way you will really know the answer to this question is if you have a mechanical engineering friend. Knowing that type, turn it into some kind of bet and offer them a case of their favorite beverage so they do a "Finite element analysis" of the keel/hull joint blocked in the front or blocked fore and aft.

Logic dictates that the bolt isn't stretching, but the piece of keel that sticks out forward of the forward most keel bolt can bend. I'm not saying it does bend, I'm saying it "could". FEA (finite element analysis) would tell you exactly how much force you would need to create a "smile"

Mark
Mola Mola

[The mobile version has no links to jump elsewhere but you can click these:]

#7

Main Message Board / Mobile Hotlinks to C34 Home & ...

Last post by KWKloeber - Yesterday at 11:36:53 PM

The mobile version has no links to jump elsewhere but you can click these: (opens a new tab in your mobile browser)

C34 HOME
https://c34.org/

TECH NOTES
https://c34.org/tech-noteswp/

TECH WIKI
https://c34.org/wiki/index.php

[I EVEN NEED TO]

#8

Main Message Board / Re: Keel Bedding Survey

Last post by KWKloeber - Yesterday at 10:42:35 PM

@High Anxiety

The aft-most nut was so loose my thumb turned it

I've previously posted about my same experience re: the fingertight aft nut and keel bedding so many times that my head hurts every time I repost about it.

The washers were set into the original gelcoat, which formed a surprisingly poor seal;

Are you thinking that CTY bolted-up the keel nuts/washers into wet gelcoat?  Doesn't seem logical to me.  What does, is the known issue on C-30s of torquing the nuts so many times that the washers compress the glass and bury themselves in the gelcoat.

Whether or not that underlying bedding is still intact is the (hopefully less than) $64,000 question.

hemming and hawing over whether to drop the keel. 

IIWMB my hem/haw would not be whether to drop the keel -- rather, my first step would be to decide WHEN to determine if I EVEN NEED TO drop the keel.  That is, answer that question right now — OR just go sailing now and answer it in fall '24 / spring '25. 
Nothing is going to change before then and the keel will not fall off if you put off finding that out.

Like engines, plumbing, electrical, and other systems: one should not play Whack-a-Mole and willy-nilly replace/fix before one troubleshoots, Troubleshoots, TROUBLESHOOTs.
(Then play "more-informed" Whack-a-Mole.)

possible damage from and difficulty with separating it, and I'm placing a lot of trust in the yard to do everything right

Removing the keel is also a costly job that could lead to more costly jobs on a 34 year old boat. 

Removing the keel is lightyears distant from being rocket science.
If I did it with no previous experience in dismembering the appendage, (IMO only) any other idiot like me **should** also be able to.
It's nasty, laborious (but not "difficult") work. 
Reattaching it takes brain power (unfortunately I learned that the hard way.)

That said I'm unsure whether I would trust the yard with anything.  Someone who blocks jack stands with 2x4s has (IMO only) questionable knowledge/conscientiousness and at worst doesn't care about their customers' yachts.  Gimmeabreak -- don't they have lumber yards in ME?

check torque often.

See above for (IMO) the danger of too-often and too-tighting of the keel nuts.
Keel nuts that are 40 ft-lbs shy do not cause the Catalina smile.

Previous info about my "no aft smile" and the loose aft nut (in no particular order):

https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/search?d=0&ev=0&p=recentpostdate%2Fsticky%2C%2C%2522keel%2522+AND+carbide%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0&ct=1&startdate=&enddate=

https://www.sailnet.com/posts/2051801875/
https://www.sailnet.com/posts/319785/

https://c34.org/search_gcse/?q=%22kwkloeber%22%20%22keel%22%20joint%20OR%20bedding%20OR%20carbide

https://c34.org/bbs/index.php?msg=97345
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php?msg=82156
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php?msg=81134
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php?msg=74413
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php?msg=71726
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php?msg=67529

My saga about reattaching the keel:
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php?msg=67822

#9

Main Message Board / Re: Keel Bedding Survey

Last post by KWKloeber - Yesterday at 08:15:15 PM

water coming FROM inside.

That's what attacks and eats up the "mung" keel bedding!
Been there, done that. 
Got the Tee shirt (and N-95 respirator.) 

#10

Main Message Board / Re: engine control cable

Last post by Jack Morrison - Yesterday at 04:52:17 PM

Thanks, Catalina Direct has provided the required installation instructions.