Need to replace our bilge pump and float switch again (replaced within the last year). Pump runs so so with lots of back flow and switch died. Recommendations?
If only using one electric bilge pump Rule 1500 or 2000 with correct Rule float switch is a good choice.
I redesigned my bilge system to have a Rule 1500 with a float switch as primary and Rule 3700 and float switch as emergency backup. The discharge hoses were replaced with hoses with a smooth internal surface all check valves were removed and anti-siphon valves added. I put a write up in the Tech WIKI with photos if interested. Very little back flow when the pump shuts off.
Before doing any changes it would be helpful to understand your current system (including electrical) and pump brand/mfr.
My float switch failed, so I just replaced mine on Saturday with a 2000 automatic (internal float switch) wired to a 2-way fused switch on the panel. I did not use the manual hot wire, so I sealed it off. I also replaced the discharge hose. Mine was routed from the transom (about 6" above waterline) over the top of the propane locker shelf (to get it well above the waterline to prevent backflow/siphoning), then down to the bottom of the bilge on the port side under the head compartment and finally to the middle bilge just aft of the mast.
Jon, I can't find your tech wiki write up. What category is it under? Or just send the link!
Thanks,
Ed
It's under Leaks then Bilge in the Tech WIKI. It's hard to find but I didn't know where else to put it.
I installed a Johnson "Ultima" switch last year. It is sealed and has worked flawlessly.
Jon,
What was the down side of the check valves?
Paul
Check valves can get stuck open or closed. Neither is good.
If stuck closed the pump won't get the water out of the boat, if stuck open you could get water into the boat from outside (proper anti siphon loops can stop water from outside coming in).
Quote from: Jon W on April 19, 2017, 06:06:21 PM
Check valves can get stuck open or closed. Neither is good.
If stuck closed the pump won't get the water out of the boat, if stuck open you could get water into the boat from outside (proper anti siphon loops can stop water from outside coming in).
They also typically reduce GPM flow
I'm told that anti-siphon valves can get fouled and stop working, too. Typical recommendation is to check them regularly (quarterly?). What's the fleet's experience?
Not sure what the concern is about the need for either a check valve or anti-syphon valve, vented loop is with the Mark I bilge pump plumbing, as the dischage is above the waterline. Perhaps in a big following sea or if you were way down below your designed lines, which may be the case if you are sinking, but then you would have the pump running with the head pressure would prevent any back-flow. What am I missing?
Run back of the water in the hose when the pump shuts off. Depending on how it is run the run back can be enough to cycle the pump more than needed otherwise.
The bilge should not have debris in it to clog the system.
Check valves and corrugated hose impact gpm/flow. I also changed to hose with smooth bore inside surface.
I do get a bit of "run back" due to length of uphill hose run, but nothing more than a couple of sponge squeezes. It would be interesting to quantify the difference between corrugated hose vs non-corrugated. Sounds like a perfect task for Practical Sailor. My gut feeling is, it's not significant enough to worry about, especially in a situation when it's "all hands to the buckets".
On some boats the outlet for the bilge pump can be underwater if you'r heeling over hard. If it's underwater when the bilge pump turns on, when it turns back off you now have a siphon unless there's a anti-siphon valve to let air in to interrupt the siphon. The vent in the top of the loop is what the anti-siphon valve is (but it needs to be checked once in a while to make sure it's clear).
Perhaps all of this is not a problem on C34s? As some of you know, I'm only the electrical engineer brother of a C34 owner and mostly only know its electrical systems. My own personal sailing/maintenance experience is on other boats.
BTW, I agree that you don't want a one-way check valve. The slight improvement in run-back is not worth the reduction in flow.
I recall Boat US estimated corrugated or ribbed hose caused a 20% reduction in flow.
Jon,
Your bilge hose run may be different from others, including mine. The flow back that I get is much more than a couple of sponge fills. It's enough to keep the pump cycling. I've had my house batteries run very low when I couldn't get back to the boat for a week or so after a heavy rain filled the bilge enough to start the pump. I plan to install the vented loop this year. Also, I've had the discharge in the transom underwater when over to starboard doing 7+ knots. At least I'm on the boat when that happens and can check the bilge when floating higher again.
Regards,
Ed
Oops. Meant to address my post to Noah's comments, not Jon's!
This topic took me back to my scariest boating day. Flat calm water with a deadline to meet a ferry in Provincetown, we were motoring up Buzzards Bay full throttle when by wife went down below to make lunch and screamed "there's water everywhere," actually 1" above the floor boards. We called the Coast Guard but the Cape Cod Canal Patrol was closer and arrived fairly quickly. By then I had checked all through hulls with no problem found. Family members were manning the manual bilge pump and running a pots and bucket brigade in a losing battle. The bilge pump was on with no evident progress. Long story made slightly shorter, together we found that a season of vibrations shook loose the bilge hose from the aft end of the check valve, past the limber hole under the cabin sole by the galley. The motoring bow up angle created downhill flow right into the bilge with no check valve to stop it. The boat was relatively new to me and I didn't know what I didn't know then- no antisiphon loop, single hose clamp on the check valve which was essentially a through hull, no bilge alarm. Once we identified the problem and reattached the loose hose to the check valve, the bilge pump drained boat drained in minutes, only minor water damage but we were probably not long from sinking. The experience taught me to focus on the critical systems first and frequently throughout the season.