Hello everyone,
Last summer I reluctantly sold my 1992 MK1.5 due to a 4000 km move to another province. I enjoyed the C34 so much that I bought another one earlier this year, this time a 1998 MK2, hull 1394 (I love the more spacious cockpit!). She had been somewhat neglected in recent years, but solid bones. I fixed up a few things, but chose to spend the summer sailing as much as I could - I had 80+ individuals onboard throughout this past season! Attached are a few photos (I will cut, polish, wax in the spring).
Some fixes:
1. the wiring in the binnacle was a mess: the alarm, tach, glow plug momentary switch, 12V plug, and fuel gauge didn't work. All are working now except the fuel gauge (need to replace the fuel sender)
2. diesel leak into aft cabin whenever tank near full. I took out the aft panel and tightened up all the hose clamps and replaced the bad ones. Seems to be fixed but there is still a little diesel smell on the underside of the mattresses unfortunately.
3. the macerator thru-hull leaked a little at the wooden base right after launch, I temporarily patched it up with aquamend and it is currently solid and not leaking (debating whether to change it this off-season or give it another season)
4. replaced cracked raw water cooling hose (apparently cracked since 2010 according to old survey I found onboard!)
5. the alternator bracket broke (the boat came with a balmar 100 amp) when the alternator strap came loose (the bolt fell off). The alternator fell backwards and the belt spun off. I had to be towed back to dock since there was no way to run the engine. Upon inspection, the bracket obviously broke and was welded back - it was just a matter of time. I bought a new bracket and new alternator strap. The previous alternator strap only had 1 bolt, while the new one has 2 bolts. So far so good.
6. the old raymarine ST4000 auto-pilot no longer worked. I removed it and installed the EV1 - worked flawlessly all summer
7. removed rigid muffler inlet hose and replaced with hump hoses - attached photo
My current problem: this evening I did my first oil change on the M35BC by hooking up a vacuum oil extractor to the oil drain hose. I was expecting to extract 3.5-4 quarts but instead ended up extracting 6.5L / 6.9 quarts!! After I changed the filter and put in 4 quarts, I ran the engine, waited 20 mins, and checked the dipstick - it showed zero! I checked again 15 mins later, same result (whenever I check, I pull, wipe, stick back in and then take the reading). I double-checked and saw no oil leaks, so the new oil is definitely still in the engine.
Has anyone encountered this before? Prior to the oil change, I checked the dipstick every time before I turned on the engine and it always showed full. Could it be that I have the wrong dipstick, perhaps too short? This could be why the previous owner overfilled the engine? I see 16282-36411 on the dipstick - what do other M35B(c) owners have?
Also, could my engine be damaged from the oil overfill? There isn't any obvious damage since it seems to be running fine throughout the rpm range, aside from seemingly excessive oil from the crankcase ventilation hose. I don't know the engine was overfilled just at the last oil change, or for many years...
Thanks
Andy
Andy,
Quiet a mystery. One thought that comes to mind is did a PO add an oil cooler or deeper oil pan? That would explain the additional oil. Otherwise check the dipstick and the dipstick tube for both correctness and proper mounting, as you already thought of. FWIW Shamrock does seem to me to have a lot of crankcase vent smell, I added a small filter and routed the vent to the air cleaner. As was detailed here. That took care of the smell and small oily mess. I'll probably go to Shamrock in the next couple of days, I'll check the dip stick numbers. Shamrock takes just short of one gallon of oil with filter change. I doubt any damage was done, if indeed the oil was overfilled, I think if the engine was that overfilled it would have blowen oil out the dip stick and all over.
Jim
Sorry, can't help with your oil problem. But I am puzzled by the apparent lack of water injection between the two bump hoses.
Was at Shamrock this morning and took a couple of pictures. Note my dipstick is not the same number as yours. I took a picture of the oil pan with a tape measure so you can compare. Sorry it's upside down.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on October 24, 2023, 04:20:57 AM
Andy,
Quiet a mystery. One thought that comes to mind is did a PO add an oil cooler or deeper oil pan? That would explain the additional oil. Otherwise check the dipstick and the dipstick tube for both correctness and proper mounting, as you already thought of. FWIW Shamrock does seem to me to have a lot of crankcase vent smell, I added a small filter and routed the vent to the air cleaner. As was detailed here. That took care of the smell and small oily mess. I'll probably go to Shamrock in the next couple of days, I'll check the dip stick numbers. Shamrock takes just short of one gallon of oil with filter change. I doubt any damage was done, if indeed the oil was overfilled, I think if the engine was that overfilled it would have blowen oil out the dip stick and all over.
Jim
Thanks in advance Jim for checking your dipstick number - if possible, could you also measure the length for me? I'd like to compare to see if my dipstick is shorter than it should be. Perhaps a PO lost the stock dipstick somehow, and replaced it with an incorrect shorter one?
I don't see an oil cooler. Attached is what my oil pan looks like - does it appear larger than yours from an eyeball measurement? I don't have anything to compare to.
Yes I also get a lot of crankcase smell in addition to some drops onto the air filter. Great idea about adding the filter and venting directly to the air filter - I'll do a search and check out what you did.
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on October 24, 2023, 09:33:12 AM
Was at Shamrock this morning and took a couple of pictures. Note my dipstick is not the same number as yours. I took a picture of the oil pan with a tape measure so you can compare. Sorry it's upside down.
Jim
Thanks Jim! Just saw your post after typing out my reply - you read my mind! I'll go to the boat today and take measurements and compare to what you've supplied. Much appreciated!
Quote from: KeelsonGraham on October 24, 2023, 09:11:27 AM
Sorry, can't help with your oil problem. But I am puzzled by the apparent lack of water injection between the two bump hoses.
It's there, just hidden behind the riser. I've heard that a more flexible hose should be put here. I will think about doing that this off-season, but there doesn't appear to be much vibration in that area. Did you install hump hoses as well on your boat? There wasn't a lot of vibration transferred to the muffler with the old stiff hose, and no damage to the muffler inlet, but now with the hump hoses installed there is zero vibration which is great - it's neat watching the hump dampen the vibration while the engine is running.
I've just bought a replacement standard hose from CD. I'd seen a post recently about hump hoses being better so I researched them. In my ignorance I was looking for a long one! Your set up looks quite good. Perhaps I'll do that next time.
FWIW I can only think that you've got the wrong dipstick.
QuoteI'd seen a post recently about hump hoses being better so I researched them. In my ignorance I was looking for a long one! Your set up looks quite good.
I agree. Andy, Please post the part numbers you used and the supplier, especially the connection, fiberglass?, tube. Maybe in a separate thread is the right place.
IMHO. I think you are doing the right thing asking here. But, if it were me, I would talk to Westerbeak and Kabota before making any changes to oil level. Maybe someone will answer with a good contact number.
Hope you solve the mystery.
Jim
Quote from: KeelsonGraham on October 25, 2023, 05:30:41 AM
I've just bought a replacement standard hose from CD. I'd seen a post recently about hump hoses being better so I researched them. In my ignorance I was looking for a long one! Your set up looks quite good. Perhaps I'll do that next time.
FWIW I can only think that you've got the wrong dipstick.
Due to the bend, it is not possible for one long hump hose, but I believe there are options for a single flexible hose that doesn't kink. Was the hose that you bought from CD a wire-reinforced hose, similar to the stock one?
Andy, is your oil pan drain situated on the aft end of the engine? Mine drains the forward end leaving a few ounces in the pan. When I changed the oil last week I wondered if the pan could be rotated 180* and still leave enough room between the drain and the engine bed? Looks like you have a great view of the TO skyline!
John
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on October 25, 2023, 06:10:31 AM
QuoteI'd seen a post recently about hump hoses being better so I researched them. In my ignorance I was looking for a long one! Your set up looks quite good.
I agree. Andy, Please post the part numbers you used and the supplier, especially the connection, fiberglass?, tube. Maybe in a separate thread is the right place.
IMHO. I think you are doing the right thing asking here. But, if it were me, I would talk to Westerbeak and Kabota before making any changes to oil level. Maybe someone will answer with a good contact number.
Hope you solve the mystery.
Jim
Sure, I'll make a separate post about the hump hose installation with part numbers etc
Regarding the oil change problem: I was at the boat yesterday and took some measurements. Interestingly, my dipstick is surprisingly longer than yours! Mine is 17.5" long from bottom of rubber to tip. Yours is 6.5". Your oil pan length looks to be 3" high, mine measures 3.5" but the variation could be just due to the angle of your photo?
Where is the bottom of your dipstick holder? Mine is just aft of the oil filter.
I'm baffled why I have a longer dipstick than stock AND it doesn't pick up the oil level at all even though I put in 4 quarts. I ended up adding 1 more quart yesterday , so the level now registers on the dipstick - approx 0.25" inches from the bottom. Not ideal as I'm technically overfilled per the manual-stated capacity, but this will allow me peace of mind whenever I check the oil (as opposed to having nothing on the dipstick).
Quote from: robbjd on October 25, 2023, 08:35:34 AM
Andy, is your oil pan drain situated on the aft end of the engine? Mine drains the forward end leaving a few ounces in the pan. When I changed the oil last week I wondered if the pan could be rotated 180* and still leave enough room between the drain and the engine bed? Looks like you have a great view of the TO skyline!
John
My oil pan drains at the aft end of the engine, which is ideal for oil changes due to the way the engine leans downwards. I thought all MK2's had the M35BC engine with the aft drain? On my MK1.5, I had the same engine as you do, and it drained forward.
It was a great view! That's not my home dock, I visited the toronto islands that time.
QuoteWhere is the bottom of your dipstick holder? Mine is just aft of the oil filter.
Are sure it's not aft of the fuel filter?
The dipstick on Shamrock is starboard aft, sort of underneath and aft of the air filter. Inserts right into the block. When checking oil I insert it all the way down, not to the bottom of the rubber seal. Oil drain hose goes to back side of engine. I don't think it leaves much old oil in at oil change if any.
Checking oil/fluids is no longer a standard thing. ie Engine dipstick goes in all the way to check, transmission goes to where the threads start, not screwed in.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on October 25, 2023, 09:22:19 AM
QuoteWhere is the bottom of your dipstick holder? Mine is just aft of the oil filter.
Are sure it's not aft of the fuel filter?
The dipstick on Shamrock is starboard aft, sort of underneath and aft of the air filter. Inserts right into the block. When checking oil I insert it all the way down, not to the bottom of the rubber seal. Oil drain hose goes to back side of engine. I don't think it leaves much old oil in at oil change if any.
Checking oil/fluids is no longer a standard thing. ie Engine dipstick goes in all the way to check, transmission goes to where the threads start, not screwed in.
Jim
Pictured is what my engine looks like - my dipstick is definitely on the port side (my oil drain hose is also aft of the pan). Also attaching diagram from the manual, which matches what I have. Mine is 1998 though, so perhaps they changed it in later years to have the dipstick on the stbd side? Well, this explains the difference in dipstick sizes!
Andy,
I don't think anyone is questioning what YOU have on your boat, just pointing out what has been "normal" on other C34s.
1. Ever since the first boats were built, there was a small door in the aft cabin expressly included by Catalina for access to the oil dipstick.
2. When the first Mark IIs came out, one of their skippers posted a thread here showing how he'd "cleverly" add that door to his boat! Evidently the factory forgot it on his hull. AFIK, all other boats have that door.
3. There have been discussions about where the oil dipstick for M25 series engines were on the original tractors that these engines came from. A respondent pointed out that the tractors had them on the port side and someone pointed out that the change was made during the "marinizing process" and involved a slight change to the oil pan, too, at that location. This makes sense since IIRC that tractor manual in our wiki for the M25 shows it on the port side and the oil pan would be slightly different in that dipstick location. In addition, the M25 series engine was used in multiple Catalinas, including the C30 and C36. I don't know whether the C30 would "benefit" from a starboard location since I recall access is from the seat cover above it although there is side access from starboard. I think the C36s have a little door like ours, too, although once their companionway stairs are lifted, access to port is just fine.
Like Jim's the dipstick on my M35BC (2006) is on the starboard side just behind the air filter and goes directly into the block.
Andy,
My boat is 1390, so 4 boats before yours. I have the same setup as you. My oil dipstick is on the top and I have to slightly pull back the hot water hose to get to it. I've never paid attention to the bottom of the tube, but I'm sure it's the same as yours down the port side of the engine. I also do not have a door along the starboard side aft cabin for engine access like I've seen on other Mkiis. If I'm understanding this thread correctly, that's where the later MKiis have to check the oil. I have to go under the stairs.
I'm hoping to get down to the boat this weekend, I can measure the dipstick if so.
Rob.
Hi Andy,
As a follow on, my dipstick is also 17.5" long and the number on the dipstick matches what you have. 16282-36411. I looked in my owners manual and the oil capacity is listed as 5.5 quarts, so a bit less than you have if you added 6.5 quarts. Still, better than 4 quarts. I looked through my logs and I didn't write down how much oil I put in. I do remember last time needing to get another quart to add but it could be that I expected 4 and needed 5. I'll have to pay attention next time I change it.
Rob.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on October 26, 2023, 11:26:54 AM
Andy,
I don't think anyone is questioning what YOU have on your boat, just pointing out what has been "normal" on other C34s.
1. Ever since the first boats were built, there was a small door in the aft cabin expressly included by Catalina for access to the oil dipstick.
2. When the first Mark IIs came out, one of their skippers posted a thread here showing how he'd "cleverly" add that door to his boat! Evidently the factory forgot it on his hull. AFIK, all other boats have that door.
3. There have been discussions about where the oil dipstick for M25 series engines were on the original tractors that these engines came from. A respondent pointed out that the tractors had them on the port side and someone pointed out that the change was made during the "marinizing process" and involved a slight change to the oil pan, too, at that location. This makes sense since IIRC that tractor manual in our wiki for the M25 shows it on the port side and the oil pan would be slightly different in that dipstick location. In addition, the M25 series engine was used in multiple Catalinas, including the C30 and C36. I don't know whether the C30 would "benefit" from a starboard location since I recall access is from the seat cover above it although there is side access from starboard. I think the C36s have a little door like ours, too, although once their companionway stairs are lifted, access to port is just fine.
Hi Stu,
I don't have an access door in the aft cabin or the head. My oil dipstick is accessed from the top of the engine. It appears that later MK2's have the oil dipstick on the starboard side, so an access door is present in the aft cabin. Even though I don't have an access door in the aft cabin, there is actually plenty of room on the starboard side of the engine. Unlike the port side which is very cramped.
I wonder why the oil dipstick location was moved on the M35B in later years? Perhaps some sort of issue with it being on the port side.
Quote from: rmjohns on October 28, 2023, 03:07:22 PM
Hi Andy,
As a follow on, my dipstick is also 17.5" long and the number on the dipstick matches what you have. 16282-36411. I looked in my owners manual and the oil capacity is listed as 5.5 quarts, so a bit less than you have if you added 6.5 quarts. Still, better than 4 quarts. I looked through my logs and I didn't write down how much oil I put in. I do remember last time needing to get another quart to add but it could be that I expected 4 and needed 5. I'll have to pay attention next time I change it.
Rob.
Hi Rob, our boats are closely related!! :) Thanks very much for confirming your dipstick # and measuring it. It makes me feel better that you have the exact same dipstick as I do. I ended up putting in 5 quarts of oil total, but based on the info you provided, I'll add 0.5 more. When you checked your dipstick, was the oil level at the very bottom of the dipstick, approx 0.25-0.50" inches from the bottom?
Hi Andy,
Your motor is different from mine, though they are very similar. That explains things. Sorry for any bad information from me. Now that that you have confirmed the dipstick is correct run it with the oil between the marks, I prefer closer to the top mark. Sounds like the original operators was missing when you bought the boat, would be a good thing to have.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on October 29, 2023, 05:25:38 AM
Hi Andy,
Your motor is different from mine, though they are very similar. That explains things. Sorry for any bad information from me. Now that that you have confirmed the dipstick is correct run it with the oil between the marks, I prefer closer to the top mark. Sounds like the original operators was missing when you bought the boat, would be a good thing to have.
Jim
Thanks Jim -- you gave me great information! I appreciated very much the info, photos, and measurements you provided! The mystery is now solved thanks to responses from yourself and the others :)
Andy, my oil level came up to the middle of the "282", so maybe slightly more than 1/2 inch from the bottom of the dipstick. The serial numbers seem to be the low/full range, so I'm a little on the low side of middle. It's about time for the fall season maintenance, so it will get changed here soon.
Rob.
Quote from: rmjohns on October 29, 2023, 01:14:49 PM
Andy, my oil level came up to the middle of the "282", so maybe slightly more than 1/2 inch from the bottom of the dipstick. The serial numbers seem to be the low/full range, so I'm a little on the low side of middle. It's about time for the fall season maintenance, so it will get changed here soon.
Rob.
Excellent, this gives me a good comparison. Thanks again for the very helpful info. All the best with the fall season maintenance!