I was in the bilge the other day and noticed that the aft most keel bolt had more of a gap between washer and underside of nut than the other keel bolt nuts.
Sure enough I could tighten that bolt with a cresent wrench. Visually, the other bolts look better, but I think it's time to check them all.
I have a torque wrench that will go to 250 LBS/ft so getting to 107 ft/lbs (this is the correct number I believe), so I think I'm ready there.
However, I would appreciate confirmation of the parts I need to buy to be able to torque the bolts.
Socket: From this thread: https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7356.0.html
1 1/8" 6 point extra deep socket - 1/2" drive
Questions. For a 2000 MK II:
1 - What is the length of the extension needed?
2 - What is the depth of the socket needed?
Your equipment list is correct. However, depth of socket varies by boat due to length of bolt exposed. Also, add a cheate bar (3 ft. Length of pipe) to the list. 107 ft. lbs. takes more strength than you would imagine.
Quote from: Noah on April 26, 2023, 09:44:31 AM
Your equipment list is correct. However, depth of socket varies by boat due to length of bolt exposed. Also, add a cheate bar (3 ft. Length of pipe) to the list. 107 ft. lbs. takes more strength than you would imagine.
Do you know how I should measure for the right socket?
Also, what do you think is a good extension length?
This is what I used and it worked fine. I would get a 24 in. piece of steel pipe to use as a breaker bar for added leverage.
Sunex 236xd 1/2-Inch Drive... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002YKK7X4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Quote from: Noah on April 26, 2023, 10:31:27 AM
This is what I used and it worked fine. I would get a 24 in. piece of steel pipe to use as a breaker bar for added leverage.
Sunex 236xd 1/2-Inch Drive... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002YKK7X4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Do you think this would be sufficient?
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maximum-1-2-in-drive-extension-bar-crv-nickel-chrome-plating-10-in-0589978p.html?rrecName=Similar%20Items%20&rrecReferrer=product&rrecProductId=0589978P&rrecProductSlot=1&rrecSchemeId=product1_rr&rrec=true
https://catalogue.ottawafastenersupply.com/product/gray-tools-socket-1-1-8-1-2-drive-3-l-6-points-lds36-yb056
That extension might work. I would measure how far from keelbolt nut to clear above floorboards.
pby : There is an extensive thread on this very topic right here on this message board!!
A thought
My socket: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009ALXYOE
I don't know how long my extension is. I bought it from Harbor Freight.
I borrow a 250 ft-lb torque wrench from AutoZone every spring. No reason to buy one.
I always spray the nuts with PB Blaster before tightening.
When lifting the socket+extension out of the bilge, ALWAYS hold it with your hand. If it falls off the torque wrench, you'll have a dent in your flooring.
Once I knew how long I needed my deep socket to be,I had someone with a welder make a crude deep socket by cutting an impact socket in half and welding in a section of pipe. It looks like crap, but does what I need it to!
QuoteOnce I knew how long I needed my deep socket to be,I had someone with a welder make a crude deep socket by cutting an impact socket in half and welding in a section of pipe.
That's what I had to do. Some of my studs were too long for any socket I could find. Here is a picture of my fine welding.
Hint, Used a piece of 1/2 inch all thread, nuts and washers to hold it together for welding.
Jim
From anecdotal stories posted here, it could be possible that they left longer bolt heads exposed in the MKII than the MKI and/or there may be a difference in bolt length exposed in wing keel VS fin keel boats too?? That is why you measure first before assuming socket length.
Quote from: Noah on April 27, 2023, 09:48:25 AM
From anecdotal stories posted here, it could be possible that they left longer bolt heads exposed in the MKII than the MKI and/or there may be a difference in bolt length exposed in wing keel VS fin keel boats too?? That is why you measure first before assuming socket length.
Interesting observation! Mines a MK II Wing keel, and while I haven't measured them, I'd say that are around 5-6 inches at least.
Pic. Attached. Note, the bildge doesn't look like that anymore. I've scrubbed the heck out of it since.
This worked for all my bolts.
Quote from: Noah on April 27, 2023, 04:12:54 PM
This worked for all my bolts.
The loaner wrench that AutoZone has is about twice as long. No need for an extension pipe.
Not sure how the rest of you do it, but I get down on the floor and put my left foot against the head of the wrench, then pull the wrench handle with my right hand. The foot on the head helps prevent excessive side loads on the socket/extension. With a 2' long wrench it only takes about 54 lb. of pull on the handle to get to 107 ft-lb.
Quote from: Ron Hill on April 26, 2023, 02:55:35 PM
pby : There is an extensive thread on this very topic right here on this message board!!
Ron, if you're gonna say something like this ^^^, please, oh please, back it up with a LINK to the "alleged" very topic. Otherwise your suggestion is useless and not helpful.
To quote a frequent contributor: "A thought"
Quote from: Noah on April 27, 2023, 04:12:54 PM
This worked for all my bolts.
Now that's what I can an extension! LOL Is that 20"?
Also, is that the socket that you referenced above? I checked Amazon.ca, and it's there, but it's listed as 2" length? That looks like a lot more that 2"....
https://www.amazon.ca/Sunex-2-Inch-8-Inch-Impact-Socket/dp/B002YKK7X4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Sunex+236xd+1%2F2-Inch+Drive+1-1%2F8-Inch+Extra+Deep+Impact+Socket&qid=1682695866&sr=8-1
According to my Amazon order history from 2021, the socket I purchased from Amazon and successfully used, is the one I posted. Whatever it says on decription, what I received is 4-1/4 deep. My longest keel bolt is 4 in. Not sure about what Canada Amazon is serving up to you. The extension I have is probably 18in.?? Maybe more? A bit of overkill, but I didn't want to do this on my knees. Good luck. Again, measure your own bolts. Good luck.
bpy : My keel nut socket is : Snap-on, 1 1/8" , SIML, 360, and it's 4 1/4" deep , 1/2" SD. I use a swivel to a home made T bar that fits in to the swivel!! Hope this helps
A few thoughts
Quote from: Noah on April 28, 2023, 09:44:44 AM
According to my Amazon order history from 2021, the socket I purchased from Amazon and successfully used, is the one I posted. Whatever it says on decription, what I received is 4-1/4 deep. My longest keel bolt is 4 in. Not sure about what Canada Amazon is serving up to you. The extension I have is probably 18in.?? Maybe more? A bit of overkill, but I didn't want to do this on my knees. Good luck. Again, measure your own bolts. Good luck.
The amazon description is a mess. They may be saying 'cm' when it should be 'inches'. There is someone in the comments mentions the length to be '5" tall'.
Did the measurements for the studs today, and the longest is 4". Aft 2 bolts seem to be 3.5".
I have no idea how to get to the 2 aft ones, or the even worse the forward keel bolt. The are all, to varying degrees, under the floor! Who thought that was a good design idea?
Quote from: Ron Hill on April 28, 2023, 03:09:30 PM
bpy : My keel nut socket is : Snap-on, 1 1/8" , SIML, 360, and it's 4 1/4" deep , 1/2" SD. I use a swivel to a home made T bar that fits in to the swivel!! Hope this helps
A few thoughts
Do you use an extension, and just a T bar instead of a torque wrench..?
bpy : my "T bar" is long enough that I don'r need an extension. I don't need a a torque setting at my age!!
107ft/lbs. is a LOT of torque - especially for a short "T" bar handle!!
A few thoughts
QuoteI have no idea how to get to the 2 aft ones, or the even worse the forward keel bolt. The are all, to varying degrees, under the floor!
pbyrne,
On my MKll I can get to most of the keel bolts with extensions and torque wrench. And helper pipe, yes I'm old. After doing what I can with them, I have a good feel for what torque I need and use a breaker bar and helper and feel to get the rest.
FWIW. Common practice torquing up is to start at the center of the bolt pattern and work to the outside. Start with 90% torque do the entire pattern, do again at 95% torque, then do again at 100% torque, then one last time at 100% torque. That's how I was taught. Takes a little longer but once you have done it once only need to recheck at 100%. It took a couple of rechecks each spring till I got no more tightening. Now I only check every couple of years and get no more.
FWIW. My "theory" on why some keel bolts need retorqued is that the keel bedding/sealer shrinks as it cures for the first few years.
Jim
Ok, job done.
Thank you to all here. I couldn't have done it without your help.
In the end I used:
CT Torque Wrench with no pipe to extend. It was close but I found a technique that made it doable.
20" extension. This made it pretty easy to work with.
1/2" drive universal adapter
1-1/8" Sunex Deep Socket. Absolutely critical. Depth barely cleared the bolts. Must have been a discount sale on keel bolts. Not sure why they are THAT long.
https://www.amazon.ca/Sunex-2-Inch-8-Inch-Impact-Socket/dp/B002YKK7X4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Sunex+236xd+1%2F2-Inch+Drive+1-1%2F8-Inch+Extra+Deep+Impact+Socket&qid=1682695866&sr=8-1
Basically, sit on the floor in a rowing position, put one hand on the wrench to extenstion 90 degree turn, other on the end of the wrench, and push and pull at the same time and row your way to 107lbs/ft.
The long extension makes this work. A shorter one would have been brutal and likely would have needed something to extend the wrench.
Congratulations. How far out of torque were they?
Quote from: Noah on May 30, 2023, 09:14:50 PM
Congratulations. How far out of torque were they?
I didn't check specifically, but they all needed around a half turn, and the aft most probably 1 and a half. The washer wasn't compressed.