Problem Unfurling In-mast Furling Mail

[Rortega46]

I love the furling mainsail but have problems unfurling it.  Problem is the main hangs up on the last 6-10 inches of luff when unfurling, i.e  it gets stuck on the last turn of the foil inside the mast.  Generally I must release the outhaul to relieve pressure, then must often go to the mast and manually pull on the main's foot to get the sail all the way out.   

I removed the main and lubricated the upper and lower bearings.  The foil turns freely with the main removed so no hang-ups there.  All I can figure is the thicker head material is somehow bunching up and preventing the last section of the sail from turning.  This is my only theory and likely totally wrong.

Does anyone have this problem or have suggestions on how to fix or troubleshoot it? 

FYI, I believe it is a Charleston Spar..  Does they provide tech support by phone or otherwise?

[Jim Hardesty]

Shamrock is also a 2001 with Charleston Spar in mast furling.  I've never had that problem.  I think your idea of the sail bunching up at the head may be correct.  The sail does take a rolled up set at the head and possibly starts to roll back.  Doesn't explain why you can pull the sail out at the mast.  Have you looked up with binoculars when having the problem?  Are you still sailing?  If you are you could try more/less halyard tension.  Take the sail down and look at the head for any chafe or signs of a bad roll.  Also you could try McLube sail lube on the first foot or two of the sail luff.
FYI  I wasn't happy with the way the stock main trimmed or the boat balanced under sail so I had the local sailmaker make a new main with vertical battens.  Also replaced the stock 155? gennoa with a 135.  The main trims much better and the boat is easy to balance.
Don't know about Charleston Spar.  Hope you get a good contact.  I need a small part, a little plastic part on the halyard swivel.
Let me know when you find the problem.
Jim

[Wayne]

I've had the same problem.  In my case, an extra fold of sail cloth comes out the slot along with the unfurling sail; affects the last turn or two.  I make sure that I'm dead into the wind, and motor as fast as I can when unfurling.  Having the main flogging as vigorously as I can helps a lot.  Also, I found that shortcuts when putting the sail away (like in my case rolling it up while off the wind) pretty much guarantees a problem when next unfurling.
The good news is that it rolls in like a charm!

[Jim Hardesty]

I think the problem starts the last time the sail was furled.  Just like the head sail the best furl is with light pressure on the sail.  If furled with the sail flogging it's loose and untidy.  Just don't see it if it's in the mast.
Jim

[Rortega46]

I figured out the problem at last. It wad dead calm in the marina today so I had a chance to furl and unfurl  the main sail repeatedly while adjusting halyard tension. If the tension was too tight when furling the main, it will hang up when later unfurled.  If the main halyard is taught, but not too tight, no problems. 


And finally, I understand Charleston Spar was acquired by Sparcraft who can be reached for tech-support (and unlikely parts) at sparcraft.com or by calling 704-597-1502.

[Rortega46]

Yesterday I talked with David at Sparcraft (704-597-1502) who was helpful from a tech support perspective.  Charleston Spar is now Sparcraft.  He took the time to discuss my unfurling problems and provide specs for the inhaul and outhaul lines. He said I should be able to unfurl without a winch but this has never been my experience.  It's good to have someone to call for in-mast furling advice.

I am going to replace the inhaul and outhaul lines with 3/8 Samson XLS Yacht Braid from Defender, and with less halyard tension I am hoping the furler works well. 

[Jim Hardesty]

He said I should be able to unfurl without a winch but this has never been my experience.

I always unfurl without the winch (only use the winch to set the outhaul home) and often furl with little or no winch.  It does help to reach up and pull the outhaul by hand to start the sail unfurling.  I think that's because I don't have much sun protection on the main and roll up all but about a foot of the sail.  When you unfurl/furl are you releasing the vang and the main sheet ?  I've found that necessary to to let them run out.
FWIW all my running rigging is original.

Jim

[Mark Sutherland]

I'll add a general comment related to some key lessons I learned about in mast furling main on my new-to-me 350 (Charleston furler). One key is the tension on the foot vs the leach when furling, or unfurling the main.  A related key is the the position of the boom end, vertically.  The lower the boom end, the more likely the predominant tension will be on the leach vs the foot during furling/unfurling. The more tension on the leach while unfurling, the more the leach pulls against the midsection of the foil, which is very flexible, especially in the middle.  When a taught leach pulls against the foil, the more likely the foil will flex aftward, jamming the foil and sail into the slot/groove in the mast usually somewhere in the middle third of the mast.  Conversely, by raising the boom end slightly above horizontal, the tension transfers more towards the foot of the sail ( with less tension on the leach), which pulls more against the bottom of the foil, which flexes very little since it is only inches above a rigid bearing holder.  With less aftward flexing of the mid-foil, the less likelihood of sail jamming mid-mast.  Of course the main must first be furled correctly; with a taught foot and slightly slack leach during the furling process(boom position again the key).  One other key is to change the neutral position of the outhaul car to a position that is further aft on the boom.  The factory neutral position of my car is only a few feet aft of the mast.  The resulting geometry places most of the tension on the leach instead of the foot.  I moved the outhaul car about 2/3 of the way aft towards the boom end and teathered it in place there.  This creates a more favorable geometry for maintaining good tension on the foot of the main during furling and unfurling.  Finally, watch the main's leach vs foot tension during the entire furling/unfurling process, maintaining more foot vs leach tension.  I also like to furl/unfurl on a starboard tack(counter-clockwise furling) using the wind to my advantage.  I haven't had a jam since.

[Rortega46]

Jim & Mark, your comments tell me I may have been under-thinking the furling process.

Jim, knowing that you furl and unfurl without using winches convinces me something is wrong.  I have not been releasing the main sheet and vang when furling and unfurling.  I have been pulling the main sheet taught which is likely contributing to unfurling tension. 

Mark, your detailed explanation of foot vs. leach tension and it's effect on the mid section of the foil is helpful for understanding proper operation of the furler.  Who knew, not me?  Releasing the main sheet may help relieve leach tension, and I will also try raising the boom end with the topping lift to see if this helps. 

I sort of understand your comments about moving the outhaul car aft toward the end of the boom to improve the angle of pull on the foot.  Mine is less than 12" aft of the clew (photo to follow).  How do you go about moving the outhaul car's neutral position aft and is this something done each time before unfurling?

Testing will tell if this is an "Ah-ha moment" and operator error has been the cause of my troubles.

[Jim Hardesty]

How do you go about moving the outhaul car's neutral position aft and is this something done each time before unfurling?

I guess I do it by reaching up and pulling the outhaul by hand.  Not every time since my rotator cuff surgery. Never said I was too bright.   Do you have a stop on the boom for the outhaul car?  Try moving that back, a lot maybe midpoint of boom or more.  I notice some Hunters with in mast furling, the boom is up at the aft end a lot.  Not very attractive to my eye, but they do furl well. 
Jim

[Rortega46]

Jim, got it.  I'll give it a try and do some testing when the current front clears out and the north wind slows.  FYI, here's a pic of my outhaul car.

[Wayne]

Mark's detailed post just gave me an 'a-ha!' moment.  My main went in and out like clockwork, until about the time I moved my topping lift permanently to my mast.  I have a boom kicker.  Likely the end of my boom is hanging a little bit lower than it had been when my topping lift was in place.  I'm sure Mark is right on about keeping the pull in the foot of the sail.

[Mark Sutherland]

Randy, I moved my outlhaul car aftward on the boom manually while at the dock, tied one end of a rope to the car, and the other end to the aft end of the boom, thus preventing the car from sliding forward, which it will naturally do when tension is applied to the outhaul. I just leave the car there all the time.  I may look for a "track stopper " which would look a little cleaner.  I thought I was nuts at first, but my sail maker confirmed my theory, and I also noticed some Island Packets with their car's neutral setting quite bit more aft than what you'd normally see.  I just know it's worked great for me.

[Mark Sutherland]

Jim, I agree that the raised boom is unattractive.  I only raise it with the topping lift during furling/unfurling.  Then I release the topping lift and trim the sail for optimal shape.

[Rortega46]

To follow up and close out this thread, had a chance to get back on the water yesterday for a beautiful sail in 15-18 knt winds.  After moving the outhaul car about 2/3 of the way aft, raising the aft end of the boom with the topping lift, lessening halyard tension, releasing the main sheet and boom vang, and unfurling on a slight starboard tack .......the main came out much much easier. It came out most of the way without using a winch.

Thanks guys for your suggestions and guidance.