Rules Of The Road Question

[britinusa]

Rule 18 Responsibilities between vessels
from the USCG Navigation Rules
RULE 18
Responsibilities Between Vessels
Except where Rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.
(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.
(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible,
keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.
(d)
(i) Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel
restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the
case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained
by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.
(ii) A vessel constrained by her draft shall navigate with particular
caution having full regard to her special condition.
(e) A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels
and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk
of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this Part.
(f)
(i) A WIG craft shall, when taking off, landing and in flight near the
surface, keep well clear of all other vessels and avoid impeding their
navigation;
(ii) A WIG craft operating on the water surface shall comply with the
Rules of this Part as a power-driven vessel.

[KWKloeber]

Ok, provided these caveats:

Any vessel being overtaken
Not Under Command
Restricted Maneuverability (ie, exhibiting signals)
Constrained by draft (ie, exhibiting signals)
Fishing Vessel (ie, exhibiting signals)
Sailing Vessel
Power Vessel
WIG while in flight near/taking off/landing (i.e., on the water just another vessel)   
Seaplane while operating ON the water

ONRCFSPWS  monoic-ize that one :-)
or
ANRCFSPWS  All Nice Rings Charm Females so Paul bought his Wife Some? 
That should get you some mileage or into trouble.

I'm not sure that pecking holds 100% in a river, narrow channel, fairway, or TSS.  Would have to look at that more closely.

-k

[britinusa]

Only Nice Reels Catch Fish So Purchase Wisely Son

BTW, I'm not really a fisherman.

The only issue I have with the leading 'O' is that a Vessel Not Under Command can hardly give way to an Overtaken vessel.

As far as within TSS, the three terms that are liberally scattered through the rules apply - May (if you want) Shall (Must do) and Impede (like, Shall Not Impede)

I took a mini test (5 ?s)  on the ROTR and got 20% because I didn't read the questions carefully and didn't know the answers, got some work to do.

Paul

[KWKloeber]

The only issue I have with the leading 'O' is that a Vessel Not Under Command can hardly give way to an Overtaken vessel.

Point Counterpoint.  Interesting dilemma.
Still, the burdened vessel (say lost steering) would have to display signals, and signal danger -- i.e., not simply have rights to run up the bum of the other. 

I think by strict interpretation it's O-N-R-C-F-S-P-W-S, then R-17(b) trumps R-13.
But for common sense, how about a practical, rather than "dead right," interpretation of R 13?
It's still early enough in the day that I could vote either way.

Maritime attorneys be damned, full speed ahead.
N-O-R-C-F-S-P-W-S
new or rebuilt can fail so purchase wisely sailor  LOL!
Brits may be better at mnemonics than I am.

I eat fish, they sell it 24/365 (and 1/4)

Are the ROTR test questions shareable?

-k

[britinusa]

I have seen USCG Flash cards system on line
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=flashCards&deck=navRules&qid=-1&rnd

Enjoy

Paul

[Dave S]

Ken's right: a NUC vessel (not under command) cannot "run up the bum of the other." Rule 13 states "Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II..." As to Ken's other point, Rule 13 addresses an overtaking vessel where Rule 17(b) speaks to a stand-on vessel (the one being overtaken.) So, they're not incompatible. I think you'll find very few, if any, investigations of vessel collisions where one party was assigned 100% of the fault - thanks to Rule 17(b).

BTW Paul, we used "Only" at the beginning of the mnemonic in the masters class I took.

[britinusa]

Sorry Dave, but a NUC vessel does not have to be at anchor. It can be any vessel which is unable to obey a command to change it's course or speed.

Here's a quote from the USCG on Rule 3.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=def3f_NOC

Rule 3

The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

[KWKloeber]

Sorry Dave, but a NUC vessel does not have to be at anchor. It can be any vessel which is unable to obey a command to change it's course or speed.

Here's a quote from the USCG on Rule 3.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=def3f_NOC

Rule 3

The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

I didn't think Dave was saying a VNUC "can't" (physically impossible) run up the butt -- just that it has no "rights" to (not that any boat has the "right" to collide with another.)

[KWKloeber]

Hey Paul

Just for fun here's an interesting twist for your studies, that I had posed to my Bro's boat group:

What if the conditions were nearly, but not exactly the same....

Boat M is sailing downwind on a broad reach, port tack, heading 295 degrees true.
Same deal, unknown to M is the tug and barge, aft of and to port of M, out of his field of vision.
When he spots the tug, M estimates that (give or take 5 degrees) the tug is heading due north, moving 12-15 knots.  Again, M feels the tug is close enough that he's uncertain there's room to head up and duck behind the tug, so crash gybes out of the way onto a starboard tack.

What say you?

Ken

[britinusa]

Innocently I reply:

M is sailing(for lack of info, assume M speed is < 12-15knots), Tug is Towing, out of field of vision would suggest Poor Visibility (or lack of lookout - ouch)

Scenario does not indicate any special area (International / Inland waters, Narrow Channel, TSS)

M's point of sail is of no relevance.

Tug is off Port Quarter

Nothing suggests that the Tug has Restricted Maneuverability

From the info provided, M may assume that the Tug is overtaking (assuming Tug could see the M's Stern Light if it were visible.)

If M Crash gybed, then he must have been concerned of collision and that the overtaking vessel was not taking appropriate action early enough.

A Crash gybe would have M turning to Starboard, an appropriate direction.

M took an appropriate action to avoid a perceived collision.

What choices did M have?

If M thought that there was a risk of collision, then gybing was appropriate (wind speed which does affect the risk of the maneuver but was not included in the scenario )

Rule 17 allows M to turn to Port if the Stand On Vessel judges that to be safest.

If I were in M's position and concerned that there was a risk of collision, then I would, currently, consider the risk of gybing v turning to port and turn appropriately.

Paul

[KWKloeber]

Paul

But now, what say you about scenario 2b:

Boat M is again on a broad reach, heading 65 degrees true.
Same tug and same associated facts as scenario 2a.

Although this time M crash gybes to port when he can't clearly determine if he can head up and tuck behind the tug.

-K

[britinusa]

If the tug is in the same situation, then it's heading nearly north and is currently on M's Port quarter. M is on a heading of 065º

No risk of collision.

[KWKloeber]

If the tug is in the same situation, then it's heading nearly north and is currently on M's Port quarter. M is on a heading of 065º

No risk of collision.

Paul  Opps.  mea cupa.  I mean to say that the tug was off to stbd.

On both 2a and 2b (corrected), the key is that M estimates the tug's course PLUS or MINUS 5 degrees.  That plus or minus (should) change it (in A's mind) from an overtaking to a crossing situation, depending on which side of north the tug is heading. 

So M is always the stand on vessel, but for different reasons -- either being overtaken, or depending on the "plus or minus" because she's under sail and being crossed by a powerboat.  On the crossing situation the tug approaching from M's port vs. stbd side is irrelevant because she's under sail.

So, the tugs estimated heading (plus or minus 5 deg) makes big difference IF the tug displays the ball-diamond-ball signal.  If the overtaking situation, M must stand on.  If the crossing situation M must give way.

k

[britinusa]

Clarification required. ... please restate the question.

[Noah]

Hope you two are maintaing a good lookout while you're doing all that typing!