engine instrument panel

[anon]

I am showing a picture of my engine instrument panel. It looks as though something is missing from the alarm. What does this alarm alert you to?
When should I use the blower?
Is there a concise engine operating manual for my M25?
It seems as though the harness upgrade has been done by a PO.
What else can be learned from the picture?
Thank you

[Stu Jackson]

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When should I use the blower?
Is there a concise engine operating manual for my M25?
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Blower is unnecessary and is a hold over from the old gasoline engines used on boats when the maker of the panels built them.  Some use the blower to exhaust engine heat, either during operation or afterwards or both.

Manuals?  The C34 tech wiki has all the manuals.    Please have a look. 

[kwaltersmi]

What else can be learned from the picture?

You need fuel soon.

[mark_53]

Looks like your missing the clear plexiglass cover. The ignition switch would be better off replaced with one with a water resistant rubber boot.

[Dave Spencer]

Sophie,
It looks like the Alarm light is missing.  This light and in most cases, an audible alarm will alert you to low oil pressure and / or high engine temperature.  It's not a big deal to be missing the light if the audible alarm works.  And it's not too big a deal to be missing the light and audible alarm if you keep and eye on your temperature gauge (and oil pressure gauge if you had one - I don't have an oil pressure gauge either - yet).

Only 523 hours on the engine!  Very low hours in my opinion.  My 1994 M35AC has approx 1300 hrs.

[anon]

I made a new acrylic cover but left it off for the picture.
Sorry for all the questions as I get up to speed with my 34.
Where can I get a new alarm light and how do I find the audible?
Where can I get a new ignition switch with rubber boot or just a rubber boot?
Where would I put the oil pressure gauge?
Does the lack of an ammeter let me know that the harness upgrade was done?
Engine hours - how do I know these are genuine and is there such a thing as "boatfax"?
Thanks everyone.

[mark_53]

Ignition switch can be bought at any automotive or marine parts store.
I would have serious reservations about believing the hours show. Just look at the engine. It should look rand new just 30 years old. No leaks, or peeling paint.
Other parts checkout catalinadirect.com or defender.com

[KWKloeber]

 Sophie,

The voltmeter lets you know that part of the harness upgrade was done, i.e. the charge current no longer goes up to the panel and then back to the starter solenoid. It does not confirm that the gummy bear connectors were removed. It also does not confirm that the harness is protected from over current (a big big rant of mine -- harnesses and panels are one thing "I do" so they are particular sore spots with me, and I warn everybody I can think of, of the inherent hazard of the OEM harnesses.).  It also does not confirm whether the engine end of the harness (the actual wires and terminations between the gummy bear plug and the engine components) were replaced. Typically over time those terminals become big problems with corrosion etc.
Another issue is that on most M25 harnesses, the "S" wire is undersized (16 gauge) and should be 10 gauge.

You have to understand how your alarm works.

On the engine is a simple on/off switch for low oil pressure; the switch is open when three's pressure and it's connected to engine ground with no/very low pressure.

The temperature sender that drives the gauge is a variable resistor and, as the engine coolant temperature changes, the resistance changes, and that is transferred to your temperature gauge (which swings with the resistance change.)

So there are two alarms.  The oil pressure is simple -- when you have no/low oil pressure the buzzer/light is connected to engine ground, there is a current path, and the alarm sounds and the light glows.

The temperature is more involved. There's a circuit board behind the panel that senses the resistance from the temp sender, and when it's a certain value (representing "about" 200 F) The board closes an electronic switch and sets off the alarm/light.

The problem is, that circuit board goes bad over time. It's not a question of IF it will, it's just WHEN it will. There is no replacement. The fix is to use a simple high temperature switch, just like the low oil pressure switch. So that when the temperature goes above the switch temp (say 200 F), the switch closes to engine ground, a current path is completed, and the alarm goes off.

So, 12v power is run from your key switch to the alarm (it is always powered when the panel is powered,) and it sounds off only when the ground side of the circuit is completed.  That's how it works on the M25 and XP (NOT so on the newer "B" engines.)

In this fashion think of the oil and high temperature switches just like a wall switch for a ceiling light - on/off, alarm/no alarm.  Low oil pressure - switch turns on your ceiling (panel) light, high temperature - switch turns on your ceiling (panel) light.

However, the temp switch is a separate type switch which is NOT currently on your engine, and needs to be added if you go that route. It's not a difficult mod, but it requires drilling/tapping and installing the switch into your thermostat housing, and running another wire from the temperature switch up to the cockpit. Or you can use the same wire that goes to the low oil pressure switch.  That way either the high temperature or low oil pressure will set off the alarm.  Or, some have removed the petcock on top of the thermostat housing and installed the switch there.  I'm not recommending one way over the other, but I wouldn't put mine in place of the petcock.

On your type panel I use a combination Cole-Hersee buzzer/alarm and run both the oil pressure switch and the temperature switch to that alarm. If it goes off you really don't care what the issue is - you shut down the engine. Looking at the temperature gauge tells you whether it's an oil pressure or temperature problem. 
If I run separate temperature/oil wires when I do a harness, there's a way to hook LEDs to the alarm that will identify whether it's an oil or temperature problem setting off the alarm.

Additionally on my panel and the last two I refurbed, I installed oil pressure gauges. It's more ("very") involved at the engine end to do that, but owners wanted it.  The oil pressure switch will alarm between 2 to 10 psi, which is, plainly, "Catalina stupid."  You have no warning if your oil pressure slowly drops. All you have is an idiot buzzer with  the possibility (probability) it won't alarm until it's as low as 3 PSI.  As I've said before "typical CTY" it was Frank's decision not to install an oil pressure gauge, not Universal or Westerbeke's decision.  Both Universal and Wb had engine panels with pressure gauges.  For whatever reason (read "cost") Frank thought that wasn't a good idea, or owners wouldn't want to know the oil pressure. So, why even put a temperature gauge on the panel - simply stick an idiot light there?   OK enough Catalina bashing, bring it on.  I have thick skin and can defend my rants. 

Below is the last panel I refurbed, notice in place of the idiot alarm light, there is a Cole-Hersee combo light/buzzer.  Also, you'll want to install all weathertight switches --  key switch, pushbutton switches, and blower toggle switch like below.

Cheers
Ken

[Noah]

Shopie-
Here is a source for most panel parts in one place. You may pay a bit more, but price vs convience is a equation you have to solve for yourself.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/category/791/instruments.cfm

[Stu Jackson]

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1.  Does the lack of an ammeter let me know that the harness upgrade was done?


2.  Engine hours - how do I know these are genuine and is there such a thing as "boatfax"?

1.  You most likely have already read through the Critical Upgrades topic.  Within that topic are a number of individual posts related to the entire wiring harness issues.  One of them clearly (?  ) discusses the different aspects of the overall "fix."  Perhaps you could review it again
and check this reply #32 out again:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg44056.html#msg44056, also read reply #44.  Please come back if you have more specific questions, because you will have to do some detective work on YOUR boat to go and look for the various parts first.

2.  Hull #369, should be a 1987 bot, right?  If it is 523 engine hours, it means 523 divided by 30 years or 18 hours a year.  That is remarkably low.  The average most of us have seen for our boats and almost all other recreational boats is around 100 hours per year.  Of course, some folks are lake sailors and just use the engine to get out of and back into the slip.  Without knowing more about the history of YOUR particular boat, there is honestly no way for anyone to say, definitively.   We'd only be guessing and perhaps misleading you.  Options are:  1) a lake boat hardly used his engine; 2) engine replaced with new hour meter/tach; 3) old tach or hour meter died, replaced instrument; 4) hour meter is stuck, he never bothered to fix or replace.  Does the tach work?  Does the meter work?  Did you get any records from the PO?  And, sorry, there is no boatfax.  Conjecture is all we can add to this point without further input and any background you might give us.

PS:  The ">>>>>>>>" are shorthand for snips, where I'm avoiding addressing the other questions or problems you listed by letting you know.  Don't want you to think I'm ignoring your other questions. 

[anon]

Thanks so much Ken, Noah, Stu. I will make a thorough investigation this weekend and report back.
Just a thought - is there any way you can cross check the C34 database to see if a PO of #369 had registered and made any postings?
Thanks again.

[Stu Jackson]

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Just a thought - is there any way you can cross check the C34 database to see if a PO of #369 had registered and made any postings?
Thanks again.

#369 had two POs in our C34IA database, one's membership expired in 1987, the other in 1994.  Neither of their names are familiar to me from this board, which started in around 2001.  Sorry.

[KWKloeber]

Sophie

If you follow that nice link that Noah provided, you will see a temp alarm mod.  That's what I was referring to.

That mod includes a new thermostat cap and the temp switch.  The housing isn't required -- you can install the switch in your old housing, saving a ton of boat bucks.  Both those parts are from Westerbeke, The switch is about 45 bucks, and I have not found a similar aftermarket temp switch.  Unfortunately, Westerbeke chose a switch with a button terminal (a "Packard 56" terminal actually), which is dumb for our engines (it's subject to coming loose. corrosion, etc.)  A screw-post terminal would be appropriate, just like the OEM temp sender and oil switches that Kubota installed on our engines.   Notice that the Westerbeke terminal isn't even tinned, it's bare copper -- a tinned-copper terminal would cost Westerbeke 5 cents additional.  Someday I'll locate a switch that works for our engines!

kk

[Jon W]

Anyone have experience with the fuel gauge sending unit shown on that Catalina Direct page?

[Noah]

Jon- I replaced my fuel tank sending unit with an off-the-shelf $20 (+/-) one from West Marine. It is a standard lever arm float sender, just like the original, not an up/down one like CD shows/sells. Works fine.