Whelp. Wish I had thru bolted that traveler

[Threaden Sails]

Hi everyone.  I'm a new member and it's my first post on here-  Glad I finally joined.  Unfortunately I really wish I had done those essential upgrades that are listed on here- afraid I found this website a little too late.  So this can serve as a reminder, for anyone who hasn't yet thru bolted their traveler- DO IT NOW!  I didn't...

Last week my traveler came out of the deck, and I'm looking for any help I can get on repairing the damage.  Is there anyone else on here who has had to go through a similar repair process?  I've got a new to me 1986 Catalina 34.  I don't believe that I have the original track, it looks to me as though a previous owner may have upgraded the track and traveler at some point (unfortunately they didn't thru-bolt it).  Underneath the fiberglass the traveler was bolted into a small steel plate and then into more fiberglass with 4" threaded bolts.  The steel plate cracked in half (or maybe was installed as two pieces?), and the fiberglass all around the traveler tore out.  My plan now is to fill with epoxy and either a new steel plate or g10 board, and then either gelcoat on top of it or top it with a pretty stainless steel plate.  I'm brand new to fiberglass repair, and have never attempted this type of project, so I worry about my ability to make it look good.  I ordered the 9" bolts from Catalina direct and you can be sure I'm thru bolting it in this time. 
Does this sound right to you more experienced sailors?  Anyone have any advice for me?
Right now I'm stuck on the first step- getting the bolts out of the old track.  I'm afraid I may have to order a new track if I can't get these little monsters out.

[Roc]

My guess is the track was bolted to the aluminum plates.  Do the plates look like they were tapped to accept the bolt threads?  If so, I would think that's how it was supposed to be done.  Many deck fittings at attached with aluminum plates molded in the fiberglass and tapped to accept the threads.  Maybe the traveler came out because the plate cracked in half, and not that the bolts weren't threaded into it.

[Steve McGill]

Threaden Sails,

You should hear replys from others with models like yours,  but while you wait take a look at the "Critical  Upgrades" it will give you valuable insight into your issue.


Hang in there, it will get better.

Steve

[DaveBMusik]

Just an FYI, the three bolts on either side are slightly different lengths to accomodate the curve of the ceiling.

Dave

[J_Sail]

If that two-piece plate is really steel, it seems unlikely that it could have cracked like that, given how thick it is. Maybe you can tell by holding the two pieces together whether they are an intimate fit like a single piece would be, or if the edges look like they were finished the edges of two narrower pieces. Also you may be able to tell if, when the plates are lined up, if the holes are perfect and threaded, versus looking slightly mis-shapen, like they were drilled/filed just to provide clearance for the bolts to pass through. Weird.

On the other hand, if they are aluminum it would be a different story. The photo is low resolution, but the discoloration looks more like aluminum corrosion by-product.

[Noah]

Call the factory and ask Gerry Douglas how the plate structure was fabricated a what he thinks happened. And see if he or someone there will look at your photos. The warning call for owners to though-bolt travelers in 1986-87 boats in the Critical Upgrade section of our website, must have been predicated on some actual failures. Perhaps some folks who had such a failure know what it looks like when "it goes" and what is underneath?

I looks to me the aluminum and it split from metal fatigue. What is curious is why are the bolts so long if they a just suposed to tap into the plate? Were they just buried in clearence hole in the deck core?? Lots of guessing with no facts or touchy feely.

[Stu Jackson]

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The warning call for owners to though-bolt travelers in 1986-87 boats in the Critical Upgrade section of our website, must have been predicated on some actual failures. Perhaps some folks who had such a failure know what it looks like when "it goes" and what is Underneath? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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The reason for the Critical Upgrade topic itself is stated at the top of that topic and the traveler thru bolt issue is actually #1 of ALL of the Critical Upgrades.

The issue was first reported in the November 1988 issue of Mainsheet.  That's right kids, 1988.  That is 29 years ago, and pretty soon after the boats were first produced.  How's that for a rapid response?

The May 1997 Mainsheet has another article, with a picture.  That photo is almost identical to the ones in this thread.

Noah's right:  it was "predicated on some actual failures" which were quickly reported and the factory pretty quickly did their homework and fixed the issue.

It's really too bad that some folks just didn't get the memo. 

[Stu Jackson]

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What is curious is why are the bolts so long if they a just supposed to tap into the plate? Were they just buried in clearance hole in the deck core?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There is nothing but air underneath, so the length of the bolts is immaterial.

I just rebedded my traveler track.  Unfortunately I didn't take enough photos at the time to record the number of bolts I have and how many are long and what position they were in.  I added one long bolt to each side back in 1998 or 1999.

However, the very first link about this subject in Critical Upgrades takes you to a thread with other links, the first of which includes this one, which records how I did it.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4935.msg29935.html#msg29935

It is, uhm, critically important to read all of the embedded links-within-the-links.  I have written exhaustively about what I did, and so have others.

[KWKloeber]

If that two-piece plate is really steel,

magnetism, it's a wonderful thing sometimes.  easy peasy to check.

k

[Threaden Sails]

Thanks everyone for the replies and moral support- it is very welcome.  Thanks for the links too- its all very helpful.  I'm starting from zero with my knowledge of boat repair, so seeing what others have done is incredibly useful.
  I don't know why I said those plates are steel.  Upon reading the mainsheet articles, it looks like the plates (if they are original) are bronze.  They are threaded.  In fact, as Stu said, there is nothing underneath but air.  So those threads were doing all the work.  And a fairly good job I suppose since the track stayed in place for 30 years. 

The question now becomes, since I snapped my plates in half, do I need to replace those plates with bronze or aluminum, or can I just build it up with epoxy or fiberglass?  Previously the plates and threading were doing the work, but now I will be thru bolting the track.  In fact I may go ahead and thru bolt it in a few spots rather than just the two on each side that Catalina suggests.  Perhaps an outboard and an inboard thru bolt on each side? 

Sorry if this is all basic stuff.  As I said this type of work is all new to me, and I definitely don't have the knowledge or understanding that some of you more experienced guys may have. Obviously If I had thru bolted the track before the plates failed this wouldn't be a problem-  The thru bolting seems pretty straight forward and well documented.  I'm just a little overwhelmed on where to start with my repair work.

I will reach out to Gerry Douglass and see if I can get any ideas of how I should proceed from him.
Now I'm gonna go back to pounding the impact driver to see if I can get those old bolts out- or if I need to order a new track 

[KWKloeber]

The question now becomes, since I snapped my plates in half, do I need to replace those plates with bronze or aluminum, or can I just build it up with epoxy or fiberglass?  Previously the plates and threading were doing the work, but now I will be thru bolting the track.  In fact I may go ahead and thru bolt it in a few spots rather than just the two on each side that Catalina suggests.   

  The thru bolting seems pretty straight forward and well documented.  I'm just a little overwhelmed on where to start with my repair work.

I think you answered your own question and are on the track.  If you thru bolt an embedded plate would do nothing.

Repair the rosers with epoxy resin, the appropriate hardener, thickener, and fglass mat or cloth laid up -- I prefer and no-blush Mas epoxy (over West) and West microfibers (over colloidal silica). 

You might think about doing the rough work and getting it to the point of gelcoating and have a pro do that.

I suppose an option might be to remove the plates and carefully take (grind) the riser down to a smooth level and have Garhauer make you two hollow polished stainless risers to bring you back to the original height?  They could be open rectangular tubes or have closed ends.  A titch overlapping on the fglass riser, and might avoid needing any gelcoat work.

ken

[Noah]

Interesting. My 1990 traveller only has one through-bolt per side on the inboard side of the traveller support tower/pedestal. Wonder if I should add another bolt on each side through the outboard most track hole? I also wonder if it is threaded into the bronze plate as well, or if it is in a "clearance hole" not threaded as it passes through the plate?

[Stu Jackson]

Noah, based on all the links within the links from the post above (which I read yesterday), post 1987 boats were OK from the factory.  I added the one inboard long bolt and I've been fine since 1998.  I think you're OK.

[Noah]

Thx. Stu- it just gave me pause as some of the early retrofit guys had added two bolts and I knew my 1990 came out of the factory with the traveller problem "solved", but was surprised they used only one through-bolt. I wonder if the internal structure was modifed by the factory as well ,or if they just kept the threaded  plate system the same but added one through bolt?

[Stu Jackson]

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I wonder if the internal structure was modifed by the factory as well ,or if they just kept the threaded  plate system the same but added one through bolt?

I don't know if the factory modified the internal structure.  I doubt it.  They just added the thru bolt.  Which was what I did, based on the recommendations from Dave Ewing and Jim Moe in Mainsheet.