B&G Electronics Package Plans

[Sailing48N]

Here's what I'm considering for my electronics package. Sailing area for this year will be from southern Puget Sound to the San Juan Islands and the southern Gulf Islands in BC. Next year's plans will include Desolation Sound. Future plans will include the Inside Passage and circumnavigating Vancouver Island.

Initial components for this season:
- B&G Vulcan 9 (maybe Zeus3 7" instead) running Navonics charts mounted at the steering pedestal
- Simrad DST 800 Sensor
- Garmin gWind Wireless 2 Transducer (would use a wired B&G one but don't plan on un-stepping the mast anytime soon)
- Simrad Forwadscan Transducer (still in question)

Future Adds:
- B&G V50 Fixed Mount VHF with AIS
- B&G Triton Displays (x2)
- B&G 3G or 4G Radar
- B&G/Simrad Auto Pilot System (TBD)

Here's where I need help.

1. How well does the Forwardscan work in the real world? I'm looking for real life experiences from those that actually have used or seen the system out on the water. Is there anyone out there that's in the know? So far I've had a difficult time finding user reviews on it... mostly hearsay or comparisons to older technology with no personal experience of the Forwardscan system.

2. What all can be connected to the NMEA 2000 backbone and how many cables will I need to run up to the chart plotter from below?
      a. I'm assuming that the chart plotter will require separate power directly and will not be powered via NMEA 2000 power supply.
      b. I'm pretty sure the DST 800 can connect via NMEA 2000 leaving the sonar port on the Vulcan open for the Forwadscan transducer. (The Zeus3 has 2 sonar ports so this may be a deciding factor.)
      c. The Triton displays simply connect to the backbone
      d. The gWind should also connect via NMEA 2000
      e. Will the V50 VHF connect via NMEA 2000 for AIS?
      f. Will the auto pilot system connect via NMEA as well?

[MarcZ]

2) Cables from below :   Power,  NMEA 2000 backbone, sounder , network ( wired ethernet option)
a)  Vulcan , Zeus2 and 3 has its own power input
b)  DST 800 for B&G is simply a  NMEA 2000 device
c) Correct
d) Garmin instrument is required to send wind info from wireless transducer to the NMEA 2000 network (most likely combined cost higher then unsteping )
e) yes It will send AIS and receive GPS info  via NMEA 2000 connection
f) yes , ... B&G autopilot will need below deck actuator and it is a very nice, but also very expensive proposition

Will this be a DIY installation ?
I would recommend discussing your choices with good local dealer or installer.

[Sailing48N]

Thanks you!

Yes, this will be a DIY installation with the exception unstepping the mast if it comes to that. But, if I change my mind, do you know of any good dealers/installers in the south Puget Sound? I've come up empty on my search other than West Marine. FWIW, I'm an IT Network Admin and the system integration and technology side of this project are right in my wheel house so to speak.

Oh, and it was supposed to be the gWind Wireless tranducer (not the #2) that includes the GND 10 and Nexus WSI box to connect to the NMEA 2000 network. The problem may be that you can't calibrate that unit through the B&G MFD's. I'd actually prefer the wired B&G wind instrument and may go that route if I wait a few years on the wind sensor. I'm still in the decision process here and that's the reason for this post. :)

I'm really hoping that someone here has some insight on the Forwardscan system too. The main purpose for wanting this would be for entering anchorages at and inlets at slow speeds with a little better view of what's lying ahead.

[Noah]

Russel-
I went the "complete B&G/Simrad route" two years ago, on all my electronics, (including two Zeus, one 12 in. at helm and T8 at nav station, 2 Tritons in cockpit, depth/wind/boat speed triducer, 4G radar and below deck autopilot with wireless remote). I have posted some info and pics previously on this site. Unfortunately my posts are scattered, not in one place. Search and you will find. Bottom line is; I am happy with all, albeit an "expensive package of goodies". I did some physical self-installation, but most wiring done by professional technician. If you want more of the gory details, I'll be happy to fill you in. Send me a PM or I can answer specific question here as well.

[Sailing48N]

Thanks Noah

I've seen most of those threads already and they were a small part of my decision to go B&G in the first place. You have a very nice electronics setup along with your beautiful electrical upgrade.

So, I've decided on the Vulcan 9 and also decided against the wireless gWind in favor of the wired B&G wind sensor. I was way out of the ballpark as to how much stepping the mast really was. Someone told me it would be well over $1,000 and it's closer to the $250 mark. I'll just wait a little while before doing that upgrade along with running a new VHF cable and installing a new antenna. I might raise the split backstay while I'm at it too.

Still going back and forth on the Forwardscan option though. My gut says go for it and try it out but I hate making purchases with such limited information and reviews. There's just not a lot of info out here to be found.

[Noah]

Make sure that the 9 in. display is large enough for you. I went with a 12 in. at the helm, but I am visually challenged.

[SPembleton]

When i was considering wind sensors, my local electronics person felt pretty confident that he could install the wired sensor without stepping the mast. He felt he could just fish the wire down, or use an existing wire to pull everything up or down.

I ended up with a wireless one and have had problems. I wish i had gone with the wired one.

[Noah]

If you are putting a new electronics package onboard, I would recommend against just fishing wires down the mast, without enclosing them ln an existing conduit or adding a new conduit, and making sure any conduit is properly secured to the mast. Otherwise, you are going have wires banging around, tangling with halyards, etc.

[britinusa]

We have the Garmin GPS and radar, the old Std Horizion Wind instrument (in the pedestal mounted pod that I have should anyone need it) But the mast head transducer blew away before we bought the boat.

I Installed the Garmin G-Wind Wireless Masthead Transducer as part of their kit that included the Wind, Water Depth, Speed, Water temp transducers. Also a GND10 interface to the NMEA 2000 network and the GMI20 Instrument. Loved it - Until the instrument screen failed within 2 years.

West Marine changed out the Instrument with a new item, no hassle, and I think the new Instrument has improved software, it seems to have a lot more features than the initial GMI20.

If it were not for the price, I would by a second GMI20 and install it in the Cabin at the Nav Station. It seems that it can basically show all of the data on the NMEA system.

Paul

[Sailing48N]

I already have conduit installed inside the mast and left a pull string running though it and up to the strain relief point for the anchor light I installed last year. It might be possible to access that pull string after drilling a new hole to mount the wind instrument. My boat has never had one installed. I have a deck stepped mast and the access holes at the bottom of the compression post will definitely be a challenge. Might be worth unstepping he mast and taking the compression post out to enlarge the wholes at the base and clean out some stuff that dropped inside from above. (I couldn't fish it all out when running the new wires for the Anchor light. If only I had the funds to do this project last year when the mast was already down.

I ordered my system yesterday from defender. Vulcan 9, Navonics Charts for my area, and their "B&G T41 Triton Speed, Depth, Wind and GPS Pack".
Next week the fun will begin!

[britinusa]

I was not aware that the 86 had the deck stepped mast option.

Paul

[Sailing48N]

Phase 1 Complete:
DST 800 transducer installed - literally drop in replacement of the old depth sounder. No need to pull the boat out to replace the through hull. Yea!!!
Two T41 instrument displays installed - used 1/4" boat-board to make adapter plates to install over the existing instrument holes in the cockpit bulkhead.
Backbone in place running from the compression post to just behind the engine.
Connected power to the backbone via existing cable connected to the "Instrument" switch at the DC panel.

I was able to get that part up and running without issues for our Memorial day shakedown cruise. Our first overnight trip of the year - 3 nights on the hook :)
Got the depth and speed calibrated easily enough. It worked beautifully for that short 40 nm round trip to Penrose Point State Park.

Phase 2 Underway:
I'm currently in the middle of installing the Vulcan 9 at the helm. I've got the supplied power cable run down to the steering access location in the aft cabin along with a NMEA drop cable to connect to the backbone. Ran out of time yesterday to finish that part but I am close.

Quick question - I hope. The NMEA backbone kit requires a 5 amp fuse and the chartplotter a 3 amp fuse. Can I run both of these off of the 5 amp fused "Instrument" switch located at the DC panel? If yes, then I won't need to use the supplied inline fuses with that setup, correct?

[Stu Jackson]

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Quick question - I hope. The NMEA backbone kit requires a 5 amp fuse and the chartplotter a 3 amp fuse. Can I run both of these off of the 5 amp fused "Instrument" switch located at the DC panel? If yes, then I won't need to use the supplied inline fuses with that setup, correct?

Glad to hear things are working.

Similar to another recent thread, you fuse the equipment and you also fuse the wire.  Look in
Electrical Systems 101 for  a link to the BlueSea PDF for this info.  The wire is sized for the load and the length of wire based on the desired voltage drop.  Once the wire size is determined, you fuse at the battery end to protect the wire, which can be a different sized fuse than the equipment fuse.

[Sailing48N]

Thanks Stu - I've read through the Electrical Systems 101 section multiple times and I'm sure I'll need to do so a few dozen more times. What a great resource but a little overwhelming at the same time. I've learned a lot from those but know I've got a long way to go yet.

I want to be able to tie the whole system together to run off of the "Instruments" switch and the main house DC distribution panel so all of the instruments and chartplotter power on when the switch is flipped on. That switch is tied into the panel mounted fuse holder currently running a 5 amp fuse. Very easily checked and troubleshot at that location.

The round trip from the panel to the NMEA backbone is less than 20 ft running on 14 AWG wire which is more than adequate for that length at 12 v and 5 amps or less. The 5 amp fuse would easily protect the wire as it is rated up to 35 amps assuming I'm reading the charts and wire size calculators correctly. Having the fuse "at the battery end" in this case would be at the panel, correct? And thus remove the need for the inline fuse to the NMEA backbone.

Here are some Vulcan 9 chartplotter specifications pulled from the owner's manual:
Operating voltage = 10 - 17 V DC
Current draw at 13.6 V (sonar off, max B/L) = 1 A
Protection = reverse polarity and temporary over-voltage to 36 V

The total max current draw for all of the instruments plus the chartplotter is 1.7 amps.

The chartplotter came with and calls for a 3 amp fuse. Will I still need to use a 3 amp fuse inline to protect the chatplotter given the built-in over-voltage protection? Would the 5 amp fuse at the panel be not be enough protection. Given the total max current draw for the whole system is less than 2 amps couldn't I just use a 3 amp fuse at the panel as an option to protect everything?

I could be all wrong here so please correct me where I've gone astray.