SmartPlug Install Wiring Question

[KWKloeber]

Heat shrink tubing is not nearly as resistant to chafing and cutting as the the original sheathing on approved 120 VAC cable. Personally I would not even for a moment entertain leaving a section of 120 VAC wire exposed to physical abuse if the sheathing were not intact.

On a separate note, in the original post's photos there appears to be a section of 120 VAC cable disappearing behind an aluminum plate. Is it sufficiently protected there against chafing on the edge of the metal?

J_

I get code vs common sense.  That's why voluntary codes have to be applied with a dose of common sense sometimes.   It's not a fairy tale perfect world that codes assume it to be, and oftentimes they do get out of date with the times.  Using the arguments of "code," no one should install a SmartPlug because it's not a depicted connector type in ABYC.  Is that correct or not?

Not so for mandatory codes, no leeway generally.

Fact based, a 2x layer of MIL SPEC heavy wall HST is CERTAINLY more robust and cut resistant than NM cable sheathing.  But I would agree not as robust as, say,UF cable sheathing.

And no one can explain a rational reason why the spice kits shown are approved for direct burial (on robust UF cable) but are not ok to use on less-robust NM cable on a boat.  It's contrary to common sense. The HST used is equivalent to UF cable, which is much more robust than the NM cable sheath on the boat.  Just because it's code, doesn't make it make sense, when it's a voluntary code.

No one is suggesting an unsheathed NM cable should be left as-is.  That's simply confusing the discussion.

No, the disappearing cable is not protected adequately!

k

[Stu Jackson]

No, the disappearing cable is not protected adequately!

True.  Just so most who of you who may never have stuck their heads inside the port locker, that aluminum is NOT OEM.  I have no idea what it is, what it is for, or why it is even there.  Don't know where that wire is going either.  Perhaps the OP can enlighten us. 

[sailaway]

Guys this connection is 120v 30amps continues load. a/c running hot water tank is on toaster oven on fans are on. NOT a place for butt splices. If you want to use butt splices on a bilge pump ok Charlie

[mainesail]

And no one can explain a rational reason why the spice kits shown are approved for direct burial (on robust UF cable) but are not ok to use on less-robust NM cable on a boat.  It's contrary to common sense. The HST used is equivalent to UF cable, which is much more robust than the NM cable sheath on the boat.  Just because it's code, doesn't make it make sense, when it's a voluntary code.



k

Ken,

I have given you a hint on that answer in BOLD... Think about why well pump wires and direct burial cables are allowed to be "spliced" and not in an enclosure.. When you bury your boat, and it's at ground potential, then we can splice without being in an enclosure... (wink)

[mainesail]

Rod

We can't use poor workmanship to make a case.  Apples vs apples.

But it is taken into account for all the time in the standards world, to make things safer.

Using that approach, a perfect butt splice such as done by yourself inside Mil spec HST, is preferred because Joe Blow could make a crappy splice inside a plastic enclosure.   You can't compare apples against rotten bananas.

It's not just preferred but is a requirement to use the proper tooling etc.. Still it does not always happen so language such as "Solder shall not be...." are included because based on historical data the vast majority of soldering in the marine environment is done horribly. Crimping with the proper tooling yields much more reliable results. With AC it kills people so the ABYC requires an enclosure for any AC termination/splice. As I mentioned before if you want to use butt splices inside the enclosure knock yourself out. You do realize you're debating this "standards compliance issue" over the addition of a $6.00 surface mount plastic enclosure/box on a $35,000+ toy right? (wink)

Re ABYC: "in conduit", which can be UL spec flexible PVC conduit.  So slip a foot of pvc flex over the butt splices.  But, not 2 layers of mil spec HST (which is better than UL rated flex conduit.)

You got the review question incorrect... The answer is not "in conduit", the answer is; B. Inside an enclosure requiring the use of hand tools to open

But still, from a practical common sense point of view -- explain how making a perfect butt splice inside two layers of mil spec HST, is a "shock hazard."  Under what condition is it a shock hazard?  A practical example?

That was not the question and in "most cases" it would never create a shock hazard but it still does not meet the standard. Below is what I responded to. You're now changing this to a "common sense" discussion.

Russell,

I haven't seen anything in ABYC that prevents you putting butt crimp splices on there. I would do that before putting a term block, which means more crimps and connections (corrosion, V loss - although with 120v that's not a big concern.)  Just use the best butt crimps (FTZ brand) and a GOOD crimper (that means NO vice grips.)

IIWMC, I wouldn't go to the expense/pain of replacing the cable -- I'd stagger the crimps on the 3 conductors, so they're not in one bunch, and then cover the slice area with a decent covering (pvc vinyl hose?) and heat shrink over the ends.  Or use Mil spec heavy wall heat shrink over the connection (myself <- use 2 layers, but I tend to overkill somewhat.)

I responded to your post to simply clarify ABYC standards compliance. What you suggest above, regarding E-11 ABYC standards, does not meet the standard.


All I did was present accurate verifiable data that shows the type of termination you suggested, in AC wire, does not meet the ABYC standards. If you want to still do that, on your boat, that is perfectly fine, unless you have an insurance survey and they guy is good..

I agree, all things equal (which they NEVER are) no splice in ANY cable is preferred.

As a paid professional, certified by the ABYC, with hefty insurance premiums, there is only one way I would address that situation if called in to make that repair. That is to wire it to ABYC standards, or better. There is far too much liability risk in not wiring to the standards and they have been held up in court cases as the default standard numerous times.

If I touch your AC inlet wiring it is getting an ELCI. If I touch your AC inlet wiring it will have another breaker at the inlet if the wire run is more than 10 wire feet to the main panel breaker. If it is physically impossible to run a new wire I will add an enclosed junction box or SMB and do it that way.

NEC allows butt splicing of direct buried cables -- using a waterproof splice kit.  Is that not a hazard?

When you can get electrocuted by touching the Earth/Ground/0V that will certainly be interesting to hear about. This is why they allow splices in underground cable, ground.....

All codes have to be taken with common sense when necessary.
Is the SmartPlug a listed shore cable connection type (ie, ABYC E-11, Figure 12?)

kk

Absolutely! That common sense however should err on the side of doing BETTER than the codes. The safety standards are a bare minimum. Under cutting the safety standard & you open yourself up to liability and are essentially on your own.

To answer the SmartPlug question, the ONLY issue the ABYC had was the auto resetting thermal breaker (something myself and many others on the electrical committee argued for keeping). SmartPlug presented their data at a standards meeting and the standards committee still shot down the auto-reset thermal switch. SmartPlug has since removed it, to comply with the ABYC standards, and when the next revision is made it will be inclusive. The SmartPlug, as it is today (no thermal switch), exceeds the ABYC requirements.

[KWKloeber]

Rod,

Ok, fahgetabout common sense for now.  Non-compliance is non-compliance, as you say.

These are all FACTS:
As of today, the old SPs were (and will remain) non-compliant.

As of today (until ABYC changes 11.13.3.2 and Figure 12,) even the "current" (no pun) SP is non-compliant

To pass a "good" survey, very technically speaking, the old SP MUST be removed and replaced with a twist-lock.   Then, after ABYC changes 11.13.3.2 a breaker-less SP can be installed.

Accolades were sung about and X-number of (10? 20? 30? x?) SmartPlugs were installed when, although they were 'better', they were CLEARLY non compliant at that time!! 

Website write ups and in a plethora of blog posts, never stated "These dang things are non compliant and are not recommended <wink>, but if you think they are for you it's YBYC, and go for it if you want to be non-compliant <wink>."

I'm not turning this personal and have bit my tongue until now, BUT.... one cannot fight to the death that "the way it's written on paper" is the "only way it shall be done."  Yet recommend that owners should buy and install a non-compliant product, because "it's better."  As you say, non-compliance is non-compliance period.

Yes, SPs were and are better, and yes, it made sense, but a non-compliant product was still installed in clear non-compliance with ABYC.  I'd say you'll have a busy winter with big economic loss removing and replacing all those with a breaker-less model that they sold to customers!!  <wiknk, wink> 

Or will they be replaced only if the boat fails an insurance survey?  Or not at all?
What if more AC work is done on the same boat -- will the old SP get ripped out and a new installed?

That would be erring on the safe side because the auto-resets are, and will continue to be not allowed.  Or, will old SPs be left in place because common sense says the auto reset is okay and economically it make no sense at all?  There goes that common sense sneaking in again.  Should everyone else who installed a SP themselves remove theirs?  No, because it doesn't make "sense."

kk

PS, And I'm not sure the old SP is "better." One could conjure up scenarios where an auto reset could be an a problem, without a telltale to identify an issue. 

And we always must err on the safe side when there's an option.  Well then ABYC needs to make a wholesale switch away from twist locks, correct?  Is it doing that? Obviously not.  So maybe ABYC isn't necessarily always "correct"?

[Noah]

How does the layman know if their Smart Plug has a auto reset? Was your bulk purchase for C34 members "old-style" or "new"?

[KWKloeber]

Noah,

The new style has an "NT" (no thermal breaker) in the product number.  (e.g., "BM30NT" for the 30 amp inlet, "B30ASSYNT" for the kit.)  No NT (e.g., "B30ASSY"), HAS the thermal breaker.

Both, whatever SP supplied at the given time/order. The majority being with the thermal breaker because SP switch after the initial group purchases, and since then it's been "dribs and drabs."

cheers
Ken

How does the layman know if their Smart Plug has a auto reset? Was your bulk purchase for C34 members "old-style" or "new"?

[J_Sail]

The new style has an "NT" (no thermal breaker) in the product number.  (e.g., "BM30NT" for the 30 amp inlet, "B30ASSYNT" for the kit.)  No NT (e.g., "B30ASSY"), no thermal breaker.

Did you perhaps intend to end that line with, "No NT (e.g., "B30ASSY"), means it HAS a thermal breaker."?

[Noah]

Thanks Ken. I will take a look at the serial number before I RIP OUT ALL MY WIRING!  LOL!!!

[KWKloeber]

 A crowbar and a chainsaw works best!!!   

[KWKloeber]

 Ooops!! Yes thank you for the correction!!!

[Jon W]

What piece of aluminum are you seeing? I see fiberglass and wood.

[KWKloeber]

Jon

Maybe you have a good eye!!  It looks like a pc of aluminum that's bent into 2 flanges. Zooming in it's hard to tell for sure?  Maybe a sharp or ragged edge tabbing in a block?

kk

[Stu Jackson]

What piece of aluminum are you seeing? I see fiberglass and wood.

Jon, on the right side of the picture.  See my reply #16.