Is Catalina Smile a structural defect?

[Capt.Jim]

Just curious...

When Honda Goldwings in the early 2000s found out that mainframe cracks were appearing they were recalled.
Is there such a thing happened with Catalina @ Woodlands Hill ever?

I mean after all isn't this a production/engineering defect ?

[Noah]

The "Catalina Smile" is really not a big deal, as far as mid-cost production boat building goes. Many of these boats are approaching 30 years old. I haven't heard of any sinking. I look at it as just a wear and tear maintenance item. Yes, they could have been built better/sturdier (and cost more money) but...

[Capt.Jim]

The "Catalina Smile" is really not a big deal, as far as mid-cost production boat building goes. Many of these boats are approaching 30 years old. I haven't heard of any sinking. I look at it as just a wear and tear maintenance item. Yes, they could have been built better/sturdier (and cost more money) but...

Well, I guess lowering the bar to "at least no boats sunk because of this problem" is a little too optimistic for my understanding.

I agree about built quality and the price relation but my point was that when a product like a boat, car, airplane structurally fails at the same place, for the same reason, over and over on the majority of the product line, then generally manufacturer takes some sort of action to fix the problem, rather than saying " oh well they all do that"...

[Noah]

In my opinion you are over-weighting the seriousness of the smile/cracking. I would guess there are many older MK1s C34s that haven't had "significant smile issues". My boat doesn't. If this rose to the level of a serious safety design/manufacturing defect, rather than just a wear and tear, maintence and cosmetic annoyance in a 30-year-old mid/low priced production boat--I would think buyers, surveyors, and insurance companies would have raised the alarm years ago.

[Stu Jackson]

......................
I agree about built quality and the price relation but my point was that when a product like a boat, car, airplane structurally fails at the same place, for the same reason, over and over on the majority of the product line, then generally manufacturer takes some sort of action to fix the problem, rather than saying " oh well they all do that"...

NOT.  Just not true.  It is widespread, but certainly not on a majority of them, on C34s and all others.

See the 101 Topics for a link that Dan did on his boat.  Truly a great writeup. 

Your boat, your choice.

But you might want to start thinking of it as a preventative maintenance item, rather than a flaw.  Kinda like chainplates...

[Breakin Away]

Perhaps OP can give an example of a car company issuing a recall on cars that were manufactured 30 years ago. I'm not aware of any. Why should a boat company be held to a higher standard?

[Capt.Jim]

Perhaps OP can give an example of a car company issuing a recall on cars that were manufactured 30 years ago. I'm not aware of any. Why should a boat company be held to a higher standard?

I was just asking.
I am not a Catalina expert.
I don't know if those Catalinas with the symptom are begin to smile at age 30 and not before.
I was just asking because I remembered that when I purchased my 1979 C30 in the year of 1991 I've dealt with the same issue on that boat too.

[Capt.Jim]

......................
I agree about built quality and the price relation but my point was that when a product like a boat, car, airplane structurally fails at the same place, for the same reason, over and over on the majority of the product line, then generally manufacturer takes some sort of action to fix the problem, rather than saying " oh well they all do that"...

NOT.  Just not true.  It is widespread, but certainly not on a majority of them, on C34s and all others.

See the 101 Topics for a link that Dan did on his boat.  Truly a great writeup. 

Your boat, your choice.

But you might want to start thinking of it as a preventative maintenance item, rather than a flaw.  Kinda like chainplates...

Got it! It's not "majority" but rather "widespread".. Wheww what was  I thinking!  There is no problem at all 

I've found the 101 Series... Great knowledge base... Thanks!

[Stu Jackson]

Jim, I apologize, bad use of words on my part.  "Perhaps reportedly widespread..." would have been much, much better.  Statistically, I don't know, but I'd venture to guess less than 5%.

See, the very purpose of these forums is to "get the word out" so skippers don't have to reinvent the wheel.  So, we have four pages of Critical Upgrades.  Does that make a C34 a "Pinto?"  Hell no, it just means we care enough to share material that new skippers may not be aware of, so they don't get stuck out on the water because "they didn't know."

Good example:  watch your engine while it's running.  Shoot, who does that with their cars anymore, right?  But for a boat engine, it's imperative to do regularly because it is NOT a new car engine.  We encourage safety, understanding of issues and options available to skippers so that once they leave the dock they can have fun, and do it safely.

[lazybone]

Just curious...

When Honda Goldwings in the early 2000s found out that mainframe cracks were appearing they were recalled.
Is there such a thing happened with Catalina @ Woodlands Hill ever?

I mean after all isn't this a production/engineering defect ?

I sort of remember a story about Lee Iacocca responding to a guy complaining about a transmission problem in his 68 Mustang... this was 1992. 

He told the guy to buy a new Mustang.


(Mr Iacocca is still doing well, let's wish him "cento, cento".

[Ron Hill]

Capt Jim : The Catalina smile has nothing to do with either production or engineering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It happens when a C34 is hauled out of the water and improperly blocked.  This has been posted a number of times.  Most yards do not allow enough boat weight to rest on the rear/middle jack stands. 

This has been proven by looking at C34s that are put back in their shipping cradles - NO Catalina smile!!!!!

A few thoughts

[Capt.Jim]

Jim, I apologize, bad use of words on my part.  "Perhaps reportedly widespread..." would have been much, much better.  Statistically, I don't know, but I'd venture to guess less than 5%.

See, the very purpose of these forums is to "get the word out" so skippers don't have to reinvent the wheel.  So, we have four pages of Critical Upgrades.  Does that make a C34 a "Pinto?"  Hell no, it just means we care enough to share material that new skippers may not be aware of, so they don't get stuck out on the water because "they didn't know."

Good example:  watch your engine while it's running.  Shoot, who does that with their cars anymore, right?  But for a boat engine, it's imperative to do regularly because it is NOT a new car engine.  We encourage safety, understanding of issues and options available to skippers so that once they leave the dock they can have fun, and do it safely.

100% Agreed ! 

[Capt.Jim]

Capt Jim : The Catalina smile has nothing to do with either production or engineering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It happens when a C34 is hauled out of the water and improperly blocked.  This has been posted a number of times.  Most yards do not allow enough boat weight to rest on the rear/middle jack stands. 

This has been proven by looking at C34s that are put back in their shipping cradles - NO Catalina smile!!!!!

A few thoughts

OK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

[Ralph Masters]

Ron,
My 87 sits in the water all year in San Diego, never gets hauled and improperly blocked for the winter and still developed the "smile".
There goes another theory.................

Ralph

[Breakin Away]

I don't question that improper blocking could cause the separation. But do you really think that it's the ONLY thing that causes this? The smile has been known to happen to other Catalina models too, and one of the causes I've heard was Catalina's use of wood as a space filler in the keel stub. Once water intrudes, the wood rots and the keel starts drop enough to separate. Apparently Catalina eliminated the wood at some point, dramatically reducing the incidence (not sure exactly when). I'll let you long-term experts fill in those details.

My point is that there can be multiple things that cause the smile, and no one single thing is 100% guaranteed to stop it.

Also, to pick nits for a minute, while the boat's stern can be raised and lowered by adjusting the aft/mid stands, the weight that sits on the aft/mid stands is pretty much the same, dictated by the center of mass of the hull. I think what you're trying to say is that having the back part of the keel bear too much weight can torque the keel in a way that encourages separation at the front edge. And this distribution of weight across the length of the keel could be adjusted by a combination of block height/location and the boat's attitude relative to the blocks. But I would think that small adjustments in the boat's attitude are going to keep the boat's weight distribution pretty much the same between the keel and the aft stands.