Cooling water on the hard

Breakin Away · October 06, 2016, 04:17:42 AM

Naive question here, but I have not been able to find an answer through searching:

This being my first inboard motor, I am curious how to best get cooling water to it for running while on the hard. I assume you get a hose to the raw water intake somehow, but how do you hold it up there? Is there a way to seal it? (Do they make the equivalent of outboard "earmuffs"?)

Similarly, how to you get antifreeze to the system? Is it also done from outside the hull, or do you introduce it somewhere under the aft berth?

Stu Jackson · October 06, 2016, 05:28:49 AM

Getting familiar with the "101 Topics" is always helpful, in addition to the tech wiki. Here's how to do it properly:

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=873073&highlight=winterizing

KWKloeber · October 06, 2016, 05:47:52 AM

Are you running it just to winterize?

Remove the sea water intake hose at the sea cock, and stick the end in a bucket of antifreeze.

Or do you need to run it longer?

-kk

Breakin Away · October 06, 2016, 06:00:06 AM

I'm not on the hard yet, so just gathering info and needed parts in advance.

How long I need to run depends on when I do the oil change. If I can do it on the water just before haulout, than I'd just need to suck antifreeze. If I can't, then I need to run long enough to warm up the oil.

Which of these depends on a lot of factors, including weather windows and lift schedule. I have a 16 hour (2 day) run from my marina to my winter storage location. If I go straight into the slings, I'll have dirty oil in the motor. If I go to a slip for a couple days, I can change the oil before haulout. I do not want to put 16 hours on the motor after an oil change - would prefer to have new, acid-free oil in the motor during storage.

RV61 · October 06, 2016, 06:10:00 AM

If you need to run on the hard for a few minutes take engine intake hose off seacock. Have your water tanks filled. Put bucket under head sink fill with water from head Fawcett leave Fawcett in bucket. Put engine hose in bucket start engine and quickly turn on head sink water Fawcett to keep water continuously in bucket. Run at no more than 50% power or it may want more water than Fawcett can put out. I have done this when I had clogged intake to get a short distance. I have also done this on hard to heat up engine oil prior to change.

Stu Jackson · October 06, 2016, 07:25:29 AM

Quote from: Breakin Away on October 06, 2016, 06:00:06 AM
.....................I do not want to put 16 hours on the motor after an oil change - would prefer to have new, acid-free oil in the motor during storage.

Really unnecessary, not an issue, but your boat, your choice.

Roc · October 06, 2016, 09:39:14 AM

As others have stated, take the hose off the seacock. Put the hose into a large bucket (cat litter bucket, or something around 3-5 gallons). Put the bucket next to the seacock. If there isn't enough hose to reach into the bucket, splice in a temporary extension. Fill the bucket with water. Put a petcock on the end of the hose (garden center on/off lever, $2). Run the engine. It will suck up water from the bucket. As it does that, you can meter more water going into the bucket by slightly opening up or closing the petcock on the hose. The more RPMs you run the engine, the more water it will suck up and the more you open the petcock. The engine isn't going to suck the water out of the bucket so fast that you can't meter water going in. Even at full throttle, it doesn't go down that fast. When I winterize, before running pink antifreeze through the engine, I run fresh water through the engine just like how I'm explaining. I run it for at least 15 minutes or so to get the engine up to operating temperature. Then I shut it down, pour antifreeze into the bucket. I can fit about 3 gallons in the bucket. I have two more gallons, with the foil seal off the bottle, ready to dump into the bucket as it is going down. I end up putting at least 5 gallons through the system. Once the bucket is empty, I shut the engine down. Engine now winterized with antifreeze.

britinusa · October 06, 2016, 01:11:58 PM

The important thing here is DO NOT FORCE WATER INTO THE ENGINE ie. Do not attach a pressured water supply hose to the engine!

Let the engine suck the water it needs from a bucket, and make sure nobody is beneath the exhaust where the water will come out.

Paul

Ron Hill · October 06, 2016, 01:16:12 PM

Breaking : Do as Roc suggested. I'm sure that you can get by with 2 gallons of the "purple" lower temp antifreeze. I like the power temp stuff which I sucked up directly from the bottles.

Then take a small bucket/coffee can and change the Zn in the heat exchanger. The anti freeze in the HX will come out into the bucket/can when you remove old Zn.
Insert a new pencil Zn and now you're really winterized!! (because the HX is empty and the muffler full of AF)

A few thoughts

patrice · October 06, 2016, 02:03:19 PM

Hi,

When I have to run the engin out of water.

Take the intake hose off the seacock and put in a bucket.
Have a garden hose ready and fill the bucket with water.
Start engine, and come back to fill bucket with the garden hose, it will empty quickly.
When ran enough, go turn off engine.

NEVER PUT PRESSURISED WATER DIRECTLY INTO INTAKE HOSE.

When ready to winterize engine, do same but with a 5 gallon of anti freeze.

Breakin Away · October 06, 2016, 02:07:06 PM

Quote from: Ron Hill on October 06, 2016, 01:16:12 PM
Breaking : Do as Roc suggested. I'm sure that you can get by with 2 gallons of the "purple" lower temp antifreeze. I like the power temp stuff which I sucked up directly from the bottles.

Then take a small bucket/coffee can and change the Zn in the heat exchanger. The anti freeze in the HX will come out into the bucket/can when you remove old Zn.
Insert a new pencil Zn and now you're really winterized!! (because the HX is empty and the muffler full of AF)

A few thoughts

Actually, I'm replacing the zinc pencil this weekend. There's too much missing from the current one to wait any longer. Plus, the HX is empty now after inspecting, so if I replace it now I don't have to contend with the mess again.

FWIW, on my boat there is no way to get any coffee can or anything else rigid under the plug. There's too much stuff in the way. The best I could do was to get a baggie under there, plus a wee wee pad to catch what the bag missed.

As for sucking the water in, MaineSail shows him taking the hose off at the other end and sucking the water from a bucket in the cockpit. That would seem to allow better runoff of any overflow from the bucket (especially for those of us with walk-through transoms). Also less potential of messing up the aft berth.

Any reason why his method doesn't work on the C34? (Poor motor access maybe?)

KWKloeber · October 06, 2016, 02:25:13 PM

Why would you have overflow from a bucket you're drawing down, unless you're not paying attention. Put a plastic garden hose quarter turn shutoff on the hose to modulate the supply.

You access the seawater pump at the front of the engine (cover), just pull off the hose and replace with another length of cheap vinyl hose.

Breakin Away · October 06, 2016, 02:38:37 PM

Quote from: KWKloeber on October 06, 2016, 02:25:13 PM
Why would you have overflow from a bucket you're drawing down, unless you're not paying attention. Put a plastic garden hose quarter turn shutoff on the hose to modulate the supply.

You access the seawater pump at the front of the engine (cover), just pull off the hose and replace with another length of cheap vinyl hose.

I'm just going off what I saw on his video. I guess more than spill control, the main benefit seems to be the comfort of working in the cockpit instead of in the cramped aft berth. And being in the cockpit allows quicker access to the kill valve if anything goes wrong or you reach the end of the antifreeze.

I'll look closer at the raw water pump when I'm down there, but I seem to recall that it's a particularly bad design for replacing the impeller, because you have to remove the whole pump to do it, and the screws or nuts are on the back side. Hopefully the hose fitting is more accessible than that.

KWKloeber · October 06, 2016, 03:34:11 PM

Oh jeez you have the Sherwood POC pump? Do yourself a big favor and install the Oberdorfer pump!

Stu Jackson · October 06, 2016, 03:59:10 PM

Quote from: Breakin Away on October 06, 2016, 02:38:37 PM..........................................
.....................................................................
I'll look closer at the raw water pump when I'm down there, but I seem to recall that it's a particularly bad design for replacing the impeller, because you have to remove the whole pump to do it, and the screws or nuts are on the back side. .............

Except that you don't have to remove the pump to get the faceplate off. And shouldn't. It's just a PITA to do.

Ken K wrote the quintessential description of the disadvantages of the Sherwood pumps in the tech wiki under engines.