Exhaust Riser is DEAD

[Breakin Away]

I need to be planning toward a replacement of my exhaust elbow and associated parts. My boat is 16 years old, and I can find no reference to replacement or inspections by prior owners. (May be missing some service records.) I'll be putting an IR gun on various parts (exhaust hose, etc.) to look for hot spots or other signs of leaks or plugging. I've seen no sign of steam in my exhaust or anything, just concerned over age. My concern is that once I start ripping off insulation I may want to have all the replacement parts handy so I don't lose out on any of our too-short season.

Is the general consensus to buy the nice electropolished one from CD (and pay for the overpriced insulation kit) or to get the one from CTY with the free DIY wrap?

[Stu Jackson]

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Is the general consensus to buy the nice electropolished one from CD (and pay for the overpriced insulation kit) or to get the one from CTY with the free DIY wrap?

This is not a consensus issue, it is a personal choice issue.  In my muffler and exhaust riser replacement tech note (Feb. 2016) I discussed the choice I made and why.

Your boat, your choice.   

[Breakin Away]

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Is the general consensus to buy the nice electropolished one from CD (and pay for the overpriced insulation kit) or to get the one from CTY with the free DIY wrap?

This is not a consensus issue, it is a personal choice issue.  In my muffler and exhaust riser replacement tech note (Feb. 2016) I discussed the choice I made and why.

Your boat, your choice.   

I disagree. Of course it's ultimately my choice, but what does this forum exist for, if not to compare recent experiences of people with similar boats? I am not obligated to go with any consensus (my choice), but if there is an emerging consensus, I think this is the place to communicate it. And if there is no consensus, open discussion among many owners will be useful to all. So my question still stands as originally asked, for those willing to participate.

I had seen your tech note, and this is what you said about getting the riser from Catalina Yachts:

I didn't price this from Catalina Yachts this time.

So I don't see much detail there about your rationale for a choice.

What I do see here is some signs of recent concerns over CD's pricing and customer service. So I think it's worth hearing more about this if people are willing to share, especially since the last time you checked with Catalina Yachts appears to be 2003. A lot has changed since then with both CTY and CD, including a 3x price increase at CD.

Also, please note that my boat is a MkII, so the parts we are talking about are different. It is possible that the optimal selection may be different for the different boats.

[Stu Jackson]

Consensus means agreement or accord.   There were 1,801 Catalina 34s built.  All of them had to have replaced their exhaust risers.  Are there statistics on what route they chose?  No.  I have been an owner since 1998, Association Secretary since 1999, and was gifted by my PO with every single issue of Mainsheet magazine from 1987 on, when C34 articles were first written.  I read them all, developed the Tech Notes Index and worked with your officers to put the tech notes online.  There has not been a consensus on where to source replacement risers, ever.  And you're actually missing a choice:  making your own.  This option was discussed early on in the old FAQs: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-exhaust-pipe.html

And whether the boat is a Mark I or II is also immaterial.  The concept is identical.

My Feb. 2016 tech note article also discussed the fact that I DID buy my first replacement riser from Catalina Yachts and mentioned an earlier tech note I wrote about that experience. ("My own February 2004 Tech Notes discussed our first riser replacement at 1,390 engine hours.")  So there was more discussion than your reply indicated.  And, yes, I chose to not use CY this time.  But that would not preclude anyone from doing a simple price comparison between the two, would it?  CD's price is online, I suppose one would have to call CY to ask.

I know what forums are for and applaud your participation and contributions here.  I offered my opinion, based on what I have learned in nineteen years of ownership and literally daily reading of this forum.

There are a few items in which consensus is a valuable indicator.  Issues like using a hump hose to your muffler and replacing the exhaust hose come to mind.

Choice of a source for exhaust risers, IMHO, isn't one of them.

Why?  Because they are both quality products.  The difference (might be) cost, and availability.  I got good service from CY 15 years ago.  I did not have the luxury of waiting this time around, so went with CD who delivered the product to me in Oakland from Sacramento in one day.  I was willing to pay what I perceived to be a higher price because of that fact.  But my tech note article did also say that I got essentially a free muffler, so that overall cost total factored into my decision making.

[Breakin Away]

Thanks for your opinion, Stu. I appreciate it. I'll continue to track down additional sources of information while I await other opinions here.

[Noah]

Questions: is it prudent or premature to change out the riser and its elbow before they fail? Are there warnings to look for that indicate failure is eminent?

[Breakin Away]

Questions: is it prudent or premature to change out the riser and its elbow before they fail? Are there warnings to look for that indicate failure is eminent?

That is a very good question, and I look forward to answers from others who know more than I do.

I am just beginning with this, and have not done a visual inspection yet. But with the boat 2 hours away, I always try to do my homework before heading to the boat. For starters, I plan to put a laser/IR temperature gun on the exhaust hose to look for hot spots. Ditto for the insulation - if there's hot exhaust or moisture seeping out from a micro-crack, I would think it could show up as hot spots. (These were suggestions that I picked up from various print and web resources.) I have no exhaust odor to indicate any problems at this point.

The sole reason for my concern is the age of my boat. Previous owner had the boat for 8 years, and wasn't much of a DIYer, but he had lots of receipts for work orders. There's no mention of him paying for an inspection or replacement. So it's time for me to look into this proactively.

[Ron Hill]

Breaking : What are your engine hours?? 
A riser deteriorates from USE?  It will usually fail at a welded jount or especially where the raw water from the HX squirts into the riser joining with the hot exhaust gases. 

What Stu is trying to tell you - is not to throw parts at the engine as a "just in case"!  A riser failure starts with a small leak usually of the water in the exhaust.

To ease your worry, take off the heat barrier insolution and inspect the riser.  You can always reinstall that wrapping!!

A few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

Very good questions from both BA and Noah.

Many years ago, then C34IA Commodore Dave Davis attempted to try to pin down the engine hours where these things failed.  It was a fruitless endeavor, because as Ron said, it is due to USE but varies between boats because the quality of the weld varies from riser to riser.  In my 2003 experience, that's where it broke, and IIRC, I included pictures of the broken riser in that referenced tech note.

And that's where 99% of the ones I heard about have broken.  Why?  'Cuz it's just like the weakest link in the chain story as Ron said --- it's the NASTIEST place on the boat:  gee, hot gas and hot water mixing.

THAT is where to look, right above the hump hose.

I, too, BA, had copious notes and details from our meticulous PO, but no indication that the riser had ever been replaced.

To Noah: when I replaced the muffler, I included in that referenced 2016 tech note the fact that I bought a new riser "since we were in there anyway."  I also include the engine hours for my first 2003 failure and those in 2016.  I forget the exact numbers, but they are there.

Questions: is it prudent or premature to change out the riser and its elbow before they fail? Are there warnings to look for that indicate failure is eminent?

Yes, it certainly would be, because your engine is operating WHEN (not if) it fails.  Think about it, right?  In 2003, I described the huge plume of brown smoke & soot.  Hell, if I'd been proactive and replaced it first, I wouldn't have had to spend four hours sailing home against the current (for a one hour trip!) and wouldn't have had the boat unusable for a long time.  I could have CHOSEN when to do the work.  Which is exactly what I did 13 years later. 

And IIRC both of my tech notes quote and/or refer to Ron Hill's excellent earlier writeups which helped me immensely.

BA, it's good that you ask these questions.  And, as you said, the use of this forum has been to discuss these issues.  I've always felt that by giving back and writing things up, we can help folks and "avoid reinventing the wheel."

I believe that between Ron's 1990s tech notes and my two, and that FAQ I lined to, we've addressed the issues in as much detail, with reasoning, experience, tips & tricks and explanations as we possibly could.

If you have more specific questions after reading those, please fire away, we'd be glad to expand on anything. 

[KWKloeber]

BA,

Something to think about re: fabricating your own (or having it fabricated). If you use pipe, especially Sch 80, it will be a lot more robust than the stainless tubing that CTY and CD, and (especially if electropolished) last much longer.   Well, possibly except for the water injection where it fail fail anyway.  So fabricating it with a threaded injection as the last fitting may, at least theoretically, allow that to be replaced when it fails.  Of course your particular engine and MK will determine how much room you have to use threaded nipples/fittings, or if you need to use the pre-fab stainless tube riser.



kk