Exhaust Riser is DEAD

[KWKloeber]

Brian,

I emailed CD last night w/ a suggestion that they consider updating the webpage that says 'send us your old riser,' saying that I understood that it no longer applied to at least the C34, B-series riser.

The reply was no 'talk to sales because we may need your old riser.'  Mercy me.  Which further reinforces my JTSO that "customer service"  at CD oftentimes maintains its noggin deeply inserted into its butt end.

kk

[bayates]

Ken,

I only deal with one person there and he has been awesome. He is a long time Cstalina employee now with CD has great knowledge and communicates well on issues and updates. Between the stern rail replacement and the riser no issues.

I know that Catalinas are production boats and there will be slight difference but I am a product person and design and ship stuff yet I am amazed at how little control over consistency there was at manufacturer. Fujitsu's customers would kill me if I did that and are goods cost significantly less for the product.


Brian

[Ekutney]

I did NOT send CD my old riser, it was NOT requested.  I used the picture with dimensions from their website to verify it was the same as the unit I removed (30 yr old black pipe).  I replaced all components from the manifold back (did this in Feb/Mar 2016); exhaust riser, hump hose, water lift muffler & exhaust hose.  The information on this forum gave me more assistance than I can say,  I purchased all items from CD except the exhaust hose, would have ordered that as well but my experience with their promised delivery date gave me pause.  When I ordered the exhaust riser from CD & they told me I had to also purchase the exhaust riser heat cover.   My only issue with the whole process was CD said it would ship the following day and told me delivery would take 5 working days.  I made arrangements for a mechanic to be on board the following weekend.  Without going into boring details, the items shipped one week later than promised, it was explained the delay was because the riser cpieces were in stock but had to be assembled.  I am happy to deal with CD but make sure you include a delay factor into your schedule for any items that may need to be assembled. 

[George Bean]

I can confirm that you DO NOT send in your old riser to Catalina Direct.  I have been told that Garhauer makes these risers for both Catalina Yachts and Catalina Direct and that the delivery quickness is dependent upon if it is in stock or if it needs to be built.  Mine was delivered from Sacramento to Santa Clara in three days.  Here is a comparison photo of the two side by side.  The photo is a little distorted and they are the same dimension-ally.  The new one is electro plated to keep the welds from rusting.  I polished off the area around the injection nipple on the old one and found these two nasty surprises.  The old one had a little rusting around the nipple and the factory insulation completely covered the cracks.  Inside the riser there was "coking" in the area of the cracks and I could not clean well enough to see how extensive the cracks were on the inside.

I do have one question:  How do I wrap the seizing wire around the manifold clamp?

[Roland Gendreau]

This is an older thread but situation is similar.   My water injection elbow failed and I am looking to replace the system.  I have a 1992 M25XP, around 1700 hours. 

I requested a quote from catalina yachts and I was underwhelmed at the response:

ello Mr. Gendreau,



"See photo attached. The C34 riser and 90O elbow at left in photo costs $265 unwrapped and $350 wrapped in wire mesh, fiberglass padding and thermal tape. The hump hose sells for $42.00. The flange, gasket, studs and nuts are engine parts. We do not sell them. You can purchase them from a Universal/Westerbeke dealer.

The thread size on our risers and 90O elbows are 1-1/2" NPT. It is possible your flange or replacement takes 1-1/4" NPT threads. In that case you would need a reducer. We don't sell those. They are a standard pipe fitting that you can get from a plumbing supply store if not a Home Depot or Lowes."

The picture attached to the email showed what looked like a galvanized street elbow from the riser to the engine flange.  Their suggestion that I buy a 1 1/2 to 1 /14 reducer at Home Depot or Lowes seems to confirm it. 

After all the negative articles on this board about using galvanized pipe for the riser, I was very surprised to see Catalina Yachts recommend this.

I was also bothered that they don't offer a riser that has the correct size pipe for M25XP  engine flanges (1 1/4 inch).   I will be speaking to them tomorrow about both issues.

>>Question - have others purchased risers from CY that included galvanized elbows?  And were you able to buy the riser to fit a 1 1/4 flange without resorting to adapters from Home Depot.

Comparing what CY offers for risers to Catalina Direct- CD shows a photo including dimensions of a  stainless riser that matches mine ,  except that the nipple that connects the elbow to the flange is 6 inches long compared to the close nipple on my present riser.   I would not want to use the 6 inch nipple as it would position the riser too close to the engine compartment aft wall. 

>>Question - have others had to have CD modify their standard riser to use a shorter nipple?

[Stu Jackson]

This is an older thread but situation is similar.   My water injection elbow failed and I am looking to replace the system.  I have a 1992 M25XP, around 1700 hours.  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>Question - have others had to have CD modify their standard riser to use a shorter nipple?

No modificajtioin required for me, M25 Mark I, should be exactly the same dimensions.

See Tech Notes Online

http://c34.org/muffler-exhaust-riser-replacement-2015/

Photo 4 shows what appears to be that 6 inch nipple.  No install problems for me, in fact, a shorter one might NOT work, 'cuz it would bring it too far forward.

[KWKloeber]

Roland,

The problem is very current -- I just was going through this with a C30 customer with an XP.

The problem is that, at some point, the supplier made two risers -- one with the 1-1/2" threads, and 1-1/4" threads to fit the proper 1-1/4" flange using an 1-1/4" stainless elbow.  Unfortunately, Catalina has none of those left.

CD has the correct riser (at least for the XP in a C-30) but won't well he riser w/o the insulation, so the customer wouldn't buy it.  Instead he's having his stainless fabricator make a complete stainless riser and flange attached for $400.

One option I gave him was to use a 1-1/2" Westerbeke flange with the 1-1/2" threaded riser.  But I don't know if that is in stock (it costs more than the 1-1/4" flange.)

I spoke to CTY about the 1-1/4" vs 1-1/2" issue last week, to no avail.  CTY said "try CD."

Please post the pictures of yours and the longer nipple from CD and what you got from CTY... so i can see what you have to work with.
it could be that you simply need to order a stainless close nipple (readily available.)

I believe the reason that they use the 1-1/2" threads is that the XPB engine uses a flange that is 1-1/2. not 1-1/4".

kk

[Roland Gendreau]

Ken

Three photos below:
My existing riser, the Catalina Direct riser and the Catalina Yachts riser.

The CY riser looks it it uses a galvanized pipe elbow (to be confirmed).

[KWKloeber]

ROLAND,

No it's a schedule 40 stainless elbow. 1- 1/2.

As I said, last week I've been all through this with CTY and CD.
What CTY had proposed was to supply a galvanized reducing coupling. The problem with that on the situation I had, was that it pushed  The whole unit too far from the flange.
The owner could rotate the riser forward to compensate, but that would have put the injection elbow off-line  of the muffler inlet.

He needed a close nipple and adding the reducer, which I think measured 4 inches threw it out of alignment.

I can't see the nipple. Is yours a close nipple or longer? Are the dimensions exactly the same as CD shows on its side?

I take back what I said last night. I didn't speak with Catalina about it-we emailed. I spoke with garhauer about it, who has made some of the risers before.    They are not interested in messing with this.

CD had the correct riser, but will not sell it without the insulation and the owner wouldn't pay what they charge for that.  So, he's having his fabricated. 400  total job as far as I know.  Maybe his guy would be interested in making yours?

Or just use CD with a close nipple if that's what you need.

[Roland Gendreau]

To close out this discussion, I was able to find an additional riser on the CD site for the M25XP, with the close nipple.

https://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/2588/exhaust-riser-c-30-c-36-w-m-25xp-or-m-35.cfm

I just placed the order, and hope they don't hold it up because I did not order the way overpriced thermal insulation kit. 

[KWKloeber]

Well as I said, owner was told "no" in no uncertain terms,  He even offered to give CD a letter absolving them of any liability on not supplying the baby blanket.

If that doesn't work out for you, my alternate was to get the CTY riser and use a stainless reducing reducing street elbow.

OR, easy enough to have a shop rethread the 1-1/4" NPT flange to 1-1/2" NPT.

OR, use the 1-1/2" NPT flange.

Ken

[Stu Jackson]

Well as I said, owner was told "no" in no uncertain terms,  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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So was I.  Mentioned in the link to my tech notes article.

Good luck.

[Roland Gendreau]

CD called me after I placed the  order for the riser to advise me that the insulation wrap was required and they would not ship me the riser without it.   They wouldn't budge so I canceled the order.

I then ordered the riser and hump hose from CY, and told them to not provide the 1 1/2" street elbow. Since I could not find a 1 1/2" x 1 !/4" SS street elbow on Amazon. I ordered a 1 1/2" ss elbow, a 1 1/2" x 1 1/4" SS bushing and a 1 1/4" close SS nipple from Amazon, all for about $25.   

All the parts should be delivered in about a week. I'll advise results.

[KWKloeber]

Roland the anwser my "stainless guy" had was to simply fab a stainless reducing 90 street ell 
Would take about 10 minutes.

It's no my bag so I may have some details wrong, nut basically he'd take a socket weld elbow and stick an 1-1/2 fm tread hub on one side and a 1-1/4' male thread on the other.   And he'd make the distances match a standard schedule 40 street ell so that the riser would match up with position of the muffler inlet.

The other way to do it, is use a heavy wall (sch 80 or class 3000) 1-1/4" 90 ell, drill out/enlarge one side and retap to 1-1/2" female, and use a close nipple on the other side.

Hoe that the bushing doesn't add too much distance.

McMaster-Carr is a good source for a lot more oddball pipe fittings (and just about everything else in the world) than what you can find on amazon.

ken

[Roland Gendreau]

With the riser from Catalina yachts, I used a 1 1/2 " elbow, and a 1 1/2 bushing and close nipple to connect to the flange.  Although slightly longer, there were no clearance issues installing it on the boat.

Catalina offered to wrap the riser with insulation for aout $90.  That option was estimated to add about a week to the delivery cycle, which I did not want to happen.  When I discussed it with CY, they said they would include enough wrap for me to do it myself.  They did not charge anything for this.  The amount of wrap provided allowed me to wrap it at least three times.

After I finished the installation and refilled and burped the cooling system , the engine ran fine.  Great experience with CY, not so much with CD.