Exhaust Riser is DEAD

[bayates]

What started out as a good weekend quickly went down hill.  Picked up all the parts to re-install the refurbed heat exchanger with new hoses and got it all done yesterday. I noticed a broken clamp on the raw water input from anti-siphon and replaced it no problem.  The I noticed a pin hole in the hose from riser to muffler and new I had to replace it.  So I did lots of reading here last night and decided to use a Ventus hose based on a post from Roc. So I cut or the old hose and when I went to remove it from the exhaust riser it just broke off in my hand. It was corrorded to no end. So I took the riser off the engine and now have more questions on what to order:

1. Do I need to send the old one to Catalina Direct to get the new one?
2. Do I need to remove exhaust flange from engine and replace it?
3. In one post it said to use something else with the flange gasket, cannot find the post again.
4. Any tricks to re-installing this.
5. I know I need to wrap the exhaust. Do you recommend the jacket from CD or use regular much let / header wrap.
6. I am ordering all new stuff so I do not have to do this again, any other suggestion to look for?

I could occasionally smell a little exhaust underway and knew I had a leak somewhere but could not find it, so maybe all this will fix other little issues.

Thanks in advance.

Brian Yates
Hakuna Matata
2000 MKII # 1517
M-35B

[KWKloeber]

Brian,

Yes CD wants the old one to have the new fabricated to be an exact fit.  You might talk directly to CTY also.   I know a C-30-er who ordered a CD riser and was out of commission for months -- wasn't happy about CD's customer service.  Dunno if it was an anomaly, CD seems to be hit or miss from what hear.
An alternative is to fab the riser yourself (or otherwise locally) from schedule 80 black pipe or stainless nipples and elbows.  Never ever use galvanized pipe due to off gassing. 

I bought my exhaust wrap and stainless clamps from autozone -- haven't installed yet.  As I will probably replace mine with the Westerbeke water -cooled riser upgrade, no need for a wrap then.

I while back I put an article on techwiki about refurb of an aqualift muffler.  While you have everything off I would make sure it is well reinforced -- better now than when it starts leaking later. MIne leaked 2x - and then I deep-sixed it.

You probably won't get the riser off the flange -- might be easier to just replace all.  You may need new flange studs -- can't tell until you see how it all comes apart.

Where are you located BTW?

Good luck!
Ken

[bayates]

Ken,

Thanks for the data. We are in San Diego. This is a killer. The boat has only been back in commission for a couple of months after it got hit and had to replace port stern rail. But glad it happened now rather than when on trip this summer. 

Brian

[bayates]

Ken,

What is the water cooled upgrade?  Where can I find write up. Sounds interesting.

[KWKloeber]

Ken,

What is the water cooled upgrade?  Where can I find write up. Sounds interesting.

Brian I mentioned it on the forum a while back.   See attached.  These are C30s (have done 2 Universals and 2 Beta 20 repowers this way) -- notice the "reverse" entry to the side in/top out waterlift - I worked out that design with Centek engineering to eliminate any chance of backflow to the exhaust valves while heeled.  It works swimmingly with the layout of the C30 engine compartment -- I can't say about the 34 - I owned one for a week (chartered in FL) but don't recall the engine compartment layout/particulars.

The cooling water is from the vented loop and is injected into the exhaust gas at the end of the riser, carried to the waterlift so all runs cool.  Slick setup.   Chuck's beta was standard hose, the other 3 are silicone hose. Fittings are all Centek fiberglass.  The last has no reverse entry - Centek doesn't recommend that way but that one wasn't my design.

kk

[KWKloeber]

Water-cooled riser pic

[KWKloeber]

Brian

BTW, Brad's is on an XPB, so the exhaust manifold is the same as your 35B (I forgot you have that) So ignore what I said about the flange, studs, etc - I was talking M25/XP.   The 35B has a different type exhaust -- a doughnut gasket and clamp ring -- like off an auto manifold  -- not studs.  Actually easier than the studded flange on the M25/XPs. 

There's a similar riser to below that fits your type exhaust manifold, rather than the pipe nipple off the threaded flange.

kk

[KWKloeber]

Brian

PS, you'll probably find the exhaust manifold side pitted and really worn -- Brad's was.  He cleaned it up as well as he could and used hi temp RTV when installing the doughnut. 

kk

[Ken Juul]

When I visited the factory in March to pick up my new rudder there were exhaust riser's on the parts shelf.  When mine failed a couple years ago they had a new one in the mail the next day.  I would try the factory.  IIRC they require pictures and measurements, but not sending the old parts to them.

[Ron Hill]

Brian : Be careful with the advice that you get because you have a M35BC engine.
Your exhaust riser attaches with a clamp fitting and there's not that much space above that flange attachment because of the cockpit floor. 

A few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

When I bought an exhaust riser for my engine last year from CD they did NOT require the old one.  I prepared a Tech Note on it: http://www.c34.org/mainsheet/html/2016/Muffler%20&%20Exhaust%20Riser%20Replacement.html

This is for a Mark I.

Lots of misinformation and misdirection in these replies.  Sometime people try to hep too much. 

Read the Tech Note if you're a C34IA member.  If you read it, you'll pick up some answers to your original questions.  Then you can come back and be more specific.

[KWKloeber]

When I bought an exhaust riser for my engine last year from CD they did NOT require the old one.  I prepared a Tech Note on it: http://www.c34.org/mainsheet/html/2016/Muffler%20&%20Exhaust%20Riser%20Replacement.html

Stu,
Did CD change its policy?  Direct from CD:

<< Due to the subtle differences in length, shape and angles you must send your old riser to achieve a proper fit.  >>

My experience is that CD won't guarantee a fit w/o having the old riser.  It there's any issue, you've bought a custom part that's not returnable.  Possibly that's no longer the policy...?  But that's the experience we've had for replacing the M25/XP riser on the C30. 

Regarding 'lots of misinformation and misdirection," can you be specific?  Examples of each?

Cheers,
ken.

[Stu Jackson]

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1889/exhaust-riser-assembly-c-34.cfm

It does say: "Please see the additional images below for dimensional references. If none of the various risers we offer match your dimensions, you will need to send us your old riser to match."

This is for the Mark I riser.  Nowhere does it say you have to send the old one in if yours matches their offerings.  I didn't.  That "policy" was from Catalina Yachts, and back in 2003, for my first riser replacement, I spoke to Robert Butler and faxed him my measurements, no need to send the old one it.  If you're a wise customer it shouldn't be required.  I did my second replacement last year in the link I provided in my earlier post.

Please note AGAIN, the link is for the Mark I riser. I didn't look for a Mark II riser.  It has a different shape.

[KWKloeber]

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1889/exhaust-riser-assembly-c-34.cfm

It does say: "Please see the additional images below for dimensional references. If none of the various risers we offer match your dimensions, you will need to send us your old riser to match."

This is for the Mark I riser.  Nowhere does it say you have to send the old one in if yours matches their offerings.  I didn't.  That "policy" was from Catalina Yachts, and back in 2003, for my first riser replacement, I spoke to Robert Butler and faxed him my measurements, no need to send the old one it.  If you're a wise customer it shouldn't be required.  I did my second replacement last year in the link I provided in my earlier post.

Please note AGAIN, the link is for the Mark I riser. I didn't look for a Mark II riser.  It has a different shape.

Stu,

I'm not making this up, and besides I wouldn't know what CTY's policy is.  The statement is on the CD page (statement #7) for the M-35B riser (the engine in question -- the page you linked to isn't for the B-series engines.  Also there are C30/M25-ers who had to send CD their riser.  I'm not saying it's the same product as for any 34, simply that what's on the CD site that I copied/pasted for the B riser, is consistent with bretherns' experiences.   Maybe the 34 Mk 1 riser is so 'Universal" (bad pun) that CD doesn't need to see it.   Dunno. 

Was that the only misinformation/misdirection so that we can push complete info out there to the vapor.

Cheers,
Ken

[bayates]

All,

Stu is correct. I talked to Kent at CD and they no longer require the old one to be sent in.  We are lucky as they were due to receive some Tuesday at CD. Kent felt 2 days to assemble and then ship. I ordered all the parts from them except the mom-hump hose which I am using Vetus hose to replace the old hard sided hose for potential future issues. I am traveling through Sunday do replacement is s heckled for the 14th. I will take lots of pictures to share findings and end result.

I appreciate all the help here as it definitely gives you direction and visibility to issues.

Let's hope it goes close to plan. Nothing ever goes perfect.

Brian