Wet Deck 2 - the jib track

RobertSchuldenfrei · November 18, 2015, 09:02:38 AM

Hi Forum,

Just about the time I got my stanchion issue resolved I noticed water on the head floor. With my moisture meter I traced it down to the port side jib track. Unlike the stanchion, the jib track runs along a lengthy section of deck. How is the track secured to the deck? Are the screws ended with washers and nuts? Will I have to rip into the underside fiberglass? Is it at all possible to seal it without removing the track?

TIA,

Bob

KWKloeber · November 18, 2015, 12:39:16 PM

Thru bolted, you need to remove the track, check for core damage (fix that if "bad" - if minor could Git-Rot it.) If there's extensive damage, well you know that deal already!

You can't fix this properly by trying to caulk the track in place.

Again though -- seal the core. Over drill the fastener holes but not thru the bottom skin, dremel out the core between skins, epoxy the holes, redrill to the fastener size. Only after doing those preventive steps, countersink and butyl tape. Se Main Sail's site for the details
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck

For a leak repair and permanent bedding, it isn't worth bypassing the step to seal the core.

kk

Stu Jackson · November 18, 2015, 04:42:16 PM

Bob, nice job on the stanchion. Yeah, the track is bolted down with nuts and acorn nuts down below. Hopefully there are the same number of fasteners down below as there are up above!!!

It's a tedious job. ITWMB, what I'd do is remove the acorn nuts down below, loosen the nuts down below, push up the track just enough to scrunch butyl tape around each bolt just under the track, and then tighten the track down again. The track is curved, assuming you're talking about the inner track, so I would delay removing it completely if you can avoid it. Just my opinion.

If it's an outer track, it's a different issue, since it's over the hull to deck joint and I have no outer track so don't personally know what the hell is underneath that sucker.

Good luck. At least you're a "confirmed" butyl tape user now.

Noah · November 18, 2015, 06:06:09 PM

Curious: what kind of moisture meter do you have? I am considering one myself.

RobertSchuldenfrei · November 20, 2015, 06:32:06 AM

Quote from: Noah on November 18, 2015, 06:06:09 PM
Curious: what kind of moisture meter do you have? I am considering one myself.

It is a GE Protimeter Aquant BLD5760. Works great. Bob

RobertSchuldenfrei · November 20, 2015, 06:53:39 AM

Quote from: Stu Jackson on November 18, 2015, 04:42:16 PM
Bob, nice job on the stanchion. Yeah, the track is bolted down with nuts and acorn nuts down below. Hopefully there are the same number of fasteners down below as there are up above!!!

It's a tedious job. ITWMB, what I'd do is remove the acorn nuts down below, loosen the nuts down below, push up the track just enough to scrunch butyl tape around each bolt just under the track, and then tighten the track down again. The track is curved, assuming you're talking about the inner track, so I would delay removing it completely if you can avoid it. Just my opinion.

If it's an outer track, it's a different issue, since it's over the hull to deck joint and I have no outer track so don't personally know what the hell is underneath that sucker.

Good luck. At least you're a "confirmed" butyl tape user now.

Hi Stu,

I just got off the phone with Warren at Catalina Yachts. He had good news. The track has a threaded aluminum backing plate.

This means I do not have to cut into the headliner from below. He said just remove the track and rebed it and I should be good to go. I will let you all know how this works out.

Cheers,

Bob

KWKloeber · November 20, 2015, 06:59:33 AM

Are we talking inner or an outer track?

-kk

RobertSchuldenfrei · November 23, 2015, 06:11:30 AM

Hi Forum Readers,

Went to the boat yesterday and I am making progress. It was pouring rain! I had put some heavy gauge plastic over the jib track. When I looked in the head; no water. That is the good news. Since it was raining to beat the band, I could do nothing about the repair. I exposed one of the screws in an attempt to see if I could turn it. Alas, the largest Phillips screw driver I had was a #3. It will take at least a #4; perhaps larger. It will require a lot of torque. Can anyone suggest a tool? I have an old fashion brace, but I only have auger bits and a flat screwdriver bit. No one seems to make these jewels any more with a Phillips bit. I might find a long ratchet driver, but I fear I will not be able to apply vertical pressure on the screw head. It seems to me that the perfect tool would be a tire-iron with a large Phillips head. That would give lots of pressure evenly distributed on both sides.

Any thoughts?

In answer to KK's question, my 34 only has one track per side as shown in the image.

Thanks in advance,

Bob

Jon W · November 23, 2015, 06:39:55 AM

I don't know if there is a#4 size bit in them but there are kits with various size screwdriver tips that fit in an electric drill at stores like Home Depot or Sears. That has worked well for me. Jon W

Jim Hardesty · November 23, 2015, 07:08:12 AM

You may consider an impact driver. To work it....set it to loosen, apply a little twisting to loosen, then hit with a mallet, repeat. Most of the time don't need to hit it very hard. Here is a link to a cheep one
http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-screwdriver-set-with-case-37530.html
if you want a better one try a motor cycle shop. I bought mine when I was doing dirt bikes 40+ years ago, still use it a couple of times a year. Just not on dirt bikes.
Also there is spray on oil products Kroil or PB Blaster are good ones. My concern with that is clean up and resealing after using oil on a porous area.
Hope that helped.
Jim

RobertSchuldenfrei · November 23, 2015, 07:22:55 AM

Quote from: Jim Hardesty on November 23, 2015, 07:08:12 AM
You may consider an impact driver. To work it....set it to loosen, apply a little twisting to loosen, then hit with a mallet, repeat. Most of the time don't need to hit it very hard. Here is a link to a cheep one
http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-screwdriver-set-with-case-37530.html
if you want a better one try a motor cycle shop. I bought mine when I was doing dirt bikes 40+ years ago, still use it a couple of times a year. Just not on dirt bikes.
Also there is spray on oil products Kroil or PB Blaster are good ones. My concern with that is clean up and resealing after using oil on a porous area.
Hope that helped.
Jim

Hi Jim,

All good suggestions. Alas, I have an impact driver but Warren from Catalina gave me the following warning: Be careful using such a tool. If you get a blow off center you can damage the screw head and worse the threaded aluminum backing plate. If that happens you are in "deep weeds." So, my first attempt will be to get a large Phillips head screwdriver or socket set attachment. With one person providing downward pressure right on the screw head a second person will provide torque on some lever arm. My first attempt will be vice grip pliers if the Phillips screwdriver has a parallel set of faces near the tip. I want to collect as much advice before I do something stupid.

Cheers,

Bob

KWKloeber · November 23, 2015, 08:06:08 AM

Bob

An electric (or air) impact driver/impact wrench would be better than the blow type -- that should spin them right out. Maybe a friend has one or rent one, or there's a reason to buy another toy. Harbor Freight has (relatively) inexpensive impact drivers/wrenches, or maybe a rental place, or Sears has rechargeable models in the Bolt-On and NexTec lines. Same for Bosch, Rigid, etc

There's socket drive and hex shank #4 Phillips bits (online, box box, etc.) Bosch has a #4 hex shank (which you could use in a 1/4" hex socket.) HF has a T handle drive which would give you both equal down pressure and torque at the same time.
Google around. Lotsa options out there. besides beating on the track - I don't like hard impact on anything if it can be avoided.

kk

tgsail1 · November 23, 2015, 08:22:48 AM

Bob- Having damaged a large number of bolt heads in my day, I may not be the best to give advice...but, IFWMB, I might do something similar to what Stu said and try to seal in place- since you can't easily remove the track- try Cap'n Tolleys. You've got that great moisture meter and rain where you live, so you can continue to monitor the situation. If it works great, if not, you're back where you are now. Screws like those are a PITA and often require PB Blaster, heat or drilling out. If you want to proceed with the correct fix, I would do it the way Ken just suggested (with Blaster)

KWKloeber · November 23, 2015, 08:35:43 AM

Not knowing your "inventory" and abilities and future need for toys, it's hard to tell what's "best" for you.

But you could look at a small portable compressor and then the air tools are usually less expensive, smaller, and lighter than their 120v or battery cousins.

Lotas options to consider which works best for you all around.

kk

tonywright · November 23, 2015, 08:55:39 AM

Check Lee Valley Tools. They sell a 3/8 socket adapter for your old fashioned brace. If you can find a #4 Phillips to fit the socket wrench, that might be your low-risk approach. Or pick up their 3-jaw brace.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32300&cat=1,180,42337&ap=1

Tony