sticker shock for dodger/bimini

[KWKloeber]

Do I understand you correctly that your front center window folds up over and stays on the top of the dodger? 

I thought canvas replacement would be an simple job.  One of the few things I don't want to do myself.  Boy was I wrong   need to learn so much.  

Jim

Jim,

Also talk to your maker about a removable front window (if you're doing a one-piece.)  My guy did that for me on the c30.

You basically need to be a self educated expert on canvas jobs before you hire anyone (who may not know what they're doing.)

I disagree with MainSail -- I find that, unfortunately,  you need to do that on EVERYTHING  you have someone do on the boat -- until you get to know your tradespeople and they prove that they deserve your trust and will do it correctly and to your liking.   You'll know who is good and who isn't -- when you realize the tradesperson is asking the right questions of you up front.  Never assume that the question wasn't asked because they already know the answer and have done it (correctly) before.  Play dumb -- a good tradesperson has a passion and loves to educate their customer and demonstrate that they know what they're doing.

kk

[mainesail]

Mainesail,
Thanks for the canvas tutorial.  Very much appreciated.  Still have a couple of questions.

My existing canvas goes around the bows and to a zipper.  No snaps into the stainless tubing. The canvas guys want to use snaps into the bows.  To me this doesn't feel to be the best way.  Is one way better than the other?

Do I understand you correctly that your front center window folds up over and stays on the top of the dodger? 

I thought canvas replacement would be an simple job.  One of the few things I don't want to do myself.  Boy was I wrong   need to learn so much.  

Jim

Snaps into the tubing?? It is pretty rare when I see that on a dodger and usually when I do it is a Band-Aid for a poor quality fit..

My front center window will fold under or over but I prefer over the top. I did have one on a previous boat that zipped out entirely too. The bottom line is that rolling or folding ruins canvas and especially destroys windows. On the Maine coast, with all the lobster pots, I consider our windows are a safety item so good visibility and no scratches are of paramount design consideration..

[patrice]

Mainesail,

Snaps into the tubing?? It is pretty rare when I see that on a dodger and usually when I do it is a Band-Aid for a poor quality fit..

My front center window will fold under or over but I prefer over the top. I did have one on a previous boat that zipped out entirely too. The bottom line is that rolling or folding ruins canvas and especially destroys windows. On the Maine coast, with all the lobster pots, I consider our windows are a safety item so good visibility and no scratches are of paramount design consideration..

Hi

I do have snaps  on my dodger frame.  And not a band aid       
The front section is in 3 pieces, side windows are fix and the center section can be rolled up.  And the 2 sides of the dodger can be completelly removed.  They have zippers on top and front side, and the snap is on the end of the zipper at the top.

[Mick Laver]

Jim,
Unfortunately the quoted price doesn't seem too off base, assuming high quality components. We did a dodger last Spring with Seamark and Makralon windows, YYK zippers etc. Pretty much as Mainesail described. We had an existing frame, but since we wanted to raise the dodger about 6 inches we wound up extending one of the bows and rebuilding the other bow from scratch, as well as adding quick-release deck fittings. And since the height was different we needed a new dodger-bimini connector, and since we'd made other pieces that attached to the old dodger these had to be modified. And on and on ... you know how it goes. By the time we were done the job was around $4.5K. I've worked with a canvas guy in our area for about 12 years. He does good work but he's slow, and he keeps his cost down by working out of his house. I imagine if I'd had the job done by one the local shops it would have been a lot more.

[Steve_in_lex]

On a related topic, is there any kind of protective application that prolongs the life of the dodger fabric?  I see some on the market...has anyone used these?  I think my fabric is Sunbrella.

Thanks,

Steve

[Stu Jackson]

IIRC, the only recommendation is 3M  303

[Jim Hardesty]

I again agree with Stu, 303 works great.  Would have replaced my canvas a couple of years ago.  After a treatment with 303 the canvas looks much newer.  More water proof too.
Jim

[KWKloeber]

For background, I just posted some good information I had from 303 on the wiki.....

http://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Cockpit#Items_of_Interest

(Look down under "Items of Interest")

Stu feel free to move to somewhere else (if appropriate.)

Cheers,
Ken

[Steve_in_lex]

Thanks all - great info.

Steve

[Ken Juul]

There is another brand, Aerospace or something like that at West Marine that works well also.  In either case you want to brush it on, using the spray bottle is not that effective.  It will also damage plastic windows so careful around them.

[KWKloeber]

There is another brand, Aerospace or something like that at West Marine that works well also.  In either case you want to brush it on, using the spray bottle is not that effective.  It will also damage plastic windows so careful around them.

Ken = Aerospace is what we're discussing -- 303 Aerospace fabric guard.  If a couple want to go together on it, you can get an excellet price on a case from Autogeek.com.

YB, YC -- but I'm telling you I spent a lot of time with the techies at 303, and brushing is NOT recommended -- it is detrimental to the effectiveness of the waterproofing process ---  you do not want to saturate the fabric, only spritz the top layer of the fabric strands.   
But  YB, YC.

k

[David Sanner]

Great thread...

My dodger has three snap on panels that protect the isinglass.  They are a bit of a pain to snap on and don't keep the water from running under them and onto the isinglass which along with age has clouded it over the years.

On my next dodger (which is needed)  I was thinking of opting for a full single cover.  It might cost a little more up front but when it needs replacing in 10+ my dodger should still look like new.

[mainesail]

There is another brand, Aerospace or something like that at West Marine that works well also.  In either case you want to brush it on, using the spray bottle is not that effective.  It will also damage plastic windows so careful around them.

Ken = Aerospace is what we're discussing -- 303 Aerospace fabric guard.  If a couple want to go together on it, you can get an excellet price on a case from Autogeek.com.

YB, YC -- but I'm telling you I spent a lot of time with the techies at 303, and brushing is NOT recommended -- it is detrimental to the effectiveness of the waterproofing process ---  you do not want to saturate the fabric, only spritz the top layer of the fabric strands.   
But  YB, YC.

k

303 Aerospace is NOT 303 Fabric Guard. Please DO NOT confuse the two...

I use a small 1/2 gallon garden pump sprayer from Tractor Supply. It gives a beautiful even finish. Lightly mist, let dry & repeat. If you get any on the glass get it off immediately For the glass all I will use is IMAR Strataglass Protective Cleaner....

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/groundwork-pump-sprayer-1-2-gal?cm_vc=-10005


This is 303 Fabric Guard (green label) for use on Sunbrella:


This is 303 Aerospace Protectant (blue label) NOT for use on Sunbrella:

[Roc]

What's a good way to protect the windows from overspray?  I'm concerned with using painter's tape because the liquid will find it's way underneath and attack the windows.

[mainesail]

I hold the spray gun in one hand a apiece of card board in the other. The card board blocks the overspray... If any does get on it a brand new microfiber rag and IMAR Strataglass Protective Cleaner and I keep going.....