M25 XP Quiz

[KWKloeber]

What's wrong with these pictures!

[Noah]

Red "ground" wire?

[KWKloeber]

Red "ground" wire?

And.....?

[Noah]

Crappy crimp connector?  Two fasteners missing on clamp? Anything else beats me. Sorry to say,  I'm not too savvy with engines.

[KWKloeber]

Stu will SURELY notice!

k

[Noah]

I'll take one more spin of the wheel. I believe the V-belt is on "inside out"?

[KWKloeber]

I'll take one more spin of the wheel. I believe the V-belt is on "inside out"?

Actually not - it's a Dayco brand "Top Cog" belt, which is (JTSO) the best belt you can use for these engines.   But your're getting MUCH "closer."

k

[britinusa]

I'm Way to close to being a total newbie on these engines: But this is the kind of thing that helps me learn what I need. So thanks for posting.

Comparing it to my engine (M25XP) it's far too clean!

The metal bracket holding the lower end of the Alternator is totally different, mine is a single bar.

The metal tube that is connecting the hose just above the crank wheel pulley(?) looks wrong.

I'm freaky about hoses being able to rub against each other on an engine that vibrates quite a bit.

Not wrong, but the hatch to the engine compartment in the Aft berth is huge compared to ours (1987) which barely provides room to get to the sump dipstick (still haven't found the transmission dispstick, have to get my caving gear on and get back down the crawl space under the aft berth.)

Paul

[Stu Jackson]

Is that an XP?  Looks like an M25 with the old alternator bracket.

Paul, the transmission dipstick is on top of the transmission housing, just forward of the HX.

[KWKloeber]

The metal bracket.

The metal tube that is connecting the hose just above the crank wheel pulley.

I'm freaky about hoses being able to rub against each other on an engine that vibrates quite a bit.

hatch

Paul,

Alt -
Getting closer - what's wrong w/ what you noticed?  Different isn't necessary 'wrong', right?  
PLUS there's a really really really telling HINT right in this COLOR photograph.

Coolant hose -

The OEM was actually a formed hose, no longer made. The elbow is a better way than using a wire hose that doesn't make a sharp 90 very well.  I put another elbow on mine where she turns back to the Hx.  But getting closer - what about hose(s)? (I see 5, maybe 6 things.)

Noah -  
yes I agree the ground terminal should be AHS.  
Not to mention wrong color as you said (should be .................?)
Grounded to a bracket to a bracket to who knows what continuity there is to the block.  Should be directly on an engine bolt or better yet to a ground bus.
Terminal on upside down - wire should be a fair lead (terminal bends - vibration may work harden the ring.)
Also ABYC: conductors must be secured/clamped/zip tied, not hanging loose.


Door - this is actually on a C30, so we're looking at the front and side doors in the saloon.

What else?

My faux pas - this is actually an M-25, not XP as I said - how do we KNOW this? There's two clues and one absolute way we know.

kk

[Noah]

Engine ground wire should be green or black. What is with that main painted engine pulley? It looks oddly bent/deformed in the center.

[KWKloeber]

Is that an XP?  Looks like an M25 with the old alternator bracket.

Alt bracket:
I knew Stu would immediately see that.  But what's really CRAZY about that on this engine?  

Yes, it's an M-25, but how are we sure - could be an early XP with the original Alt bracket!  (There's another hint and one absolute way to know.)

k

[KWKloeber]

Engine ground wire should be green or black. What is with that main painted engine pulley? It looks oddly bent/deformed in the center.

Yes black (if it's a DC negative,) or more recently per ABYC, yellow (to differentiate from an AC black (ungrounded) conductor).
But if it's a bonding wire - green.

Looks like a pc of tape on the pulley - 'timing' or TDC mark?

I think the bend you see is the washer/tab locking the nut onto the crank shaft (plus rust.)

kk

[mainesail]

Timing gear case has already been replaced once (at enormous expense) and the shop or DIY doing the work very stupidly re-used an alt bracket that was superseded 15+ years ago. It WILL fail again....

[KWKloeber]

Timing gear case has already been replaced once (at enormous expense) and the shop or DIY doing the work very stupidly re-used an alt bracket that was superseded 15+ years ago. It WILL fail again....

As always RC hits the mark.    

Gear case - the color gives it away - obviously NOT an OEM M-25 gear cover.  DUH, you would think the person would have investigated why the cover failed and spewed oil all over the bilge and engine compartment?  And read the Service Bulletin?  NOT.

Hoses-

1. None of the coolant or sea water hoses appear to be compliant (at least no markings visible on any of them).
2. None of the hoses subject to sea water are double clamped.
3. Clamps should be changed to AWAB (solid, not perforated band) clamps and double-clamped where possible.  All the more critical to switch to solid clamps where fittings are too short to properly double clamp!
4. Nipples at the sea water pump look to be brass (elbows might be bronze - will give the benefit of doubt there?)
5. Better - would be to change both to straight hose barbs, no elbows.  
6. Water heater hoses by transmission are tightly zip-tied to engine mount - no intervening cushion against the mount - I would use a cut-off of the non-compliant hose when I replaced all the hoses.
7. I will bet $100 the elbow on the sea water strainer is gray PVC - CTY is notorious for using PVC on thru hulls.
8. Water heater hoses should be switched from being in series with the HX, to up front (using the thermostat bypass hose barbs at the coolant pump/thermostat housing.)  
9. Fuel hose appears to be non-approved?  At least no markings visible.
10. Fuel fittings not double clamped.

Transmission cable puts a lot of stress on the engine clamp, I would support it where it exits the engine compartment as it goes under the sole liner.

Secondary fuel filter (Universal) is about the lowest efficiency that you can buy.  Much better alternatives with higher efficiency available (like Fleet Guard filters, recommended by my Kubota heavy equipment dealer.)

Why is it an M-25 and not an XP?

Circumstantial evidence:
1) Looks to be a freshwater boat - that had a 2" Hx (M-25) replaced w/ a 3" Hx.  Yes, could have been an OEM 3" (XP) and replaced with like, but being freshwater, it's just circumstantial evidence it may have not have been a Hx failure (corrosion/pinhole) and was instead upsized to 3" due to overheating (Service Bulletin #195,)  

2)  Old Alt bracket - more prevalent on M-25s than XPs.

3) Water heater hoses in series w/ Hx (M-25s), instead of run from the thermostat bypass nipples (XP.)

4) Fuel return line to tank comes off rear of engine (XP) rather than front (M-25.)

Dead giveaways:
5) Bell housing has flat Hx mount (M-25) vs vertical mount brackets (XP)

6) 855cc (CID) on engine block (D'OH - I missed at first.   )