Newbie Question on potential C-34

[ccaper]

Hi, first post.  Apologies if this is the wrong section.

Trying to decide if the following C-34 is worth making the drive from Chicago to Milwaukee for a viewing, potentially making an offer.

Boat in question:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=2796483&checked_boats=2796483&hosturl=larsenmarine&&ywo=larsenmarine&&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=12544&url=

It's a 1988 Fin. , Tall Rig. Broker responded to me today with the following:
"The boat is in the water at the Port Washington, WI marina.  The keel bolts are tight however the fairing on the keel to hull joint has started to come off in several places.  I'm sure there is moisture in the rudder.  The chain plates and deck hardware are due for re-bedding.  Cosmetically she shows below average but she is offered at a give-away price by a motivated seller."

I prefer to view boats out of the water.  I have some concern with the broker's comment on the fairing on the keel to hull joint.  I've had to walk away from a C-30 after survey found the keel was separating and shifted the compression post decently, causing moderate deck problems.  I assume chain plate and deck hardware rebedding shouldn't be of concern, unless there has been water damage.  I assume moisture in the rudder to be expected, and not of serious concern.

Opinions?

A little about myself to assist with opinions.  This would be my first boat.  Would be sailing out of Chicago.  Been primarily looking at C-30's (and fairly familiar with them), but more I read about C-34's, the more I am interested in them.  I'm not looking for perfect, but I'm also not looking for a project boat, or something needing significant work right off the bat.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[KWKloeber]

I prefer to view boats out of the water.  I have some concern with the broker's comment on the fairing on the keel to hull joint.  I've had to walk away from a C-30 after survey found the keel was separating and shifted the compression post decently, causing moderate deck problems.  I assume chain plate and deck hardware rebedding shouldn't be of concern, unless there has been water damage.  I assume moisture in the rudder to be expected, and not of serious concern.

Just a point of information on the C30s. 
The compression post dropping and potential deck collapse (though more likely due to water intrusion through the mast step) is not caused by the keel separating.  The keel joint issue - is related to CTY embedding a wooden plank in the keel stub, bedding the keel with polyester resin, water traveling down the keel bolt thread spiral, and possible improper blocking on the hard. 

The compression post dropping is due to CTY embedding a wooden block (that eventually deteriorates) in the bilge (right below the sole) to support the post.  The keel could fall off and not affect the compression post support and vice versa.

If you don't want projects, sounds like this one may not be for you.  Depending on what you call "projects."

Ken

[tommyt]

You are not going to know unless you look. Chicago to Port Washington is a pretty quick trip. If you check YW you will not find many C34's available in the Great Lakes of any vintage. There is a reason for that...they are a great boat. Whether this boat, one of the cheapest out there, is the boat for you only you can decide. There are a few others on the Michigan side and at Winthrop Harbor as well. Look at the Winthrop boat and the Port Washington boat in the same day to get a perspective.

Both the C 30  and the C34 are great boats, but for that price expect to spend some money on either one.

[Noah]

One man's project is another man's passion... All boats take a commitment, whether it be time and/or money! I would say check it out and kick some tires. BTW - a purchase should involve inspection and survey in and out of the water. Good luck!

[Carolina Soul]

Looks like a nice boat.  My experience with both the Catalina 30 and the Catalina 34 is the "Catalina Smile" on the keel is a given.  I attend to mine each time I haul it out - a little Dremel work and some G-Flex epoxy and I am good to go.  I paid $32K for my 1988 3yrs ago in NC as a comparison to your "give-away price."   My boat needed some cosmetic work that the one you are looking at appears not to need.  Good luck!

[Footloose]

I would drive the hour from Chicago to look at this boat also.  All boats require maintenance.  The biggest things I would look for are water in the deck and have items in the critical upgrades section of this site been attended too.  The water in the rudder may be able to be repaired.  Replacements are available but involves a good chunk of money.  You may want to get some feedback as to the wisdom of a tall rig vs standard rig in your area. 

One of the reasons you are seeing fewer C34s vs C30s for sale is that fewer were made and most owners of C34s love them.

Good luck!

[kwaltersmi]

Seems like a very reasonable distant to travel to see what appears to be a fairly clean C34 that could use the maintenance that most that age require. However, I wouldn't call that a "giveaway price", but rather very much inline with the age/market.

[BillG]

Other questions to keep in mind; Age of the standing rigging, age of the sails, the electronics all seem to be Datamarine so that means they are original.

[ccaper]

Thanks all, I sincerely appreciate the advice.

Few comments.

Familiar with fewer 34's available due to a lower production run.

Yep, Chicago to Milwaukee is not a bad drive, and Milwaukee is one of my favorite cities.

I too didn't think that was a "give away" price, but just a hair under market value, and maybe not even that with the possible maintenance required.

I've noticed the C-34 for sale in Winthrop Harbor area, but it's just above my max limit.  I've also noticed the C-34 for sale over on Michagan side, in my range.  However that one is a wing, and I'm partial to the fins, if possible.

I've priced a rudder for a C-30 I looked at a year ago, so have a ball park idea what the repair costs are, or a replacement.  Part of me kinda doesn't mind replacing this one to go with the elliptical "upgrade", if needed.

Don't mind rebedding the the chainplates and deck hardware.  I think my biggest concern is the fairing on the keel joint.  And since it's currently in the water, will be difficult to determine it's state.  I've had a boat surveyed before, and it seems it's more difficulty getting an in water boat surveyed out of water.

Ken, thanks for all the details on the compression post and the keel, much appreciated.

Completely understand boats need maintenance, and are usually a project over time.  I'm actually looking forward to that.  Caveat right now is I'm trying to start a business, and have limited free time at the moment (but do expect that to widen in about a year).  Some I'm hesitant to step into serious work right off the bat.

I imagine she will still be for sale after the season is over.  I think it might be best to view her after she is hauled out for better inspection.  There is also a 1990 C-30 I'm hoping to view near the Wisconsin boarder.  Which is one of the best parts of being in the lower Lake Michican market, so many harbors to watch for possible boats for sale!

Again, thank you for all the advice.

[tommyt]

If she is in the water now, and you think you might want to look at her later, you can always do both. When the boat is rigged you can see parts that are a PITA to look at when out of the water and in storage. Rigging, sails, etc..When I had my boat I totally stripped it after haul, so to see the parts you had to see my barn as well as my boat. You could run into the same thing. If it is of interest you either pull the trigger and do a survey out of the water (really not hard to get done). Or, you put it all in your memory bank and wait till it is out of the water and then  view it on the hard.

[Ted Pounds]

Tall rig, fin keel is just what you want for the western shore of Lake Michigan.  If the rudder has water in it that may be a good thing.  Get a quote on replacing it and have the seller knock that off the price.  Then replace the rudder with a new elliptical one (I think they're the only ones you can get anyway...).  It'll have way better performance and you'll know you have solid steering.   

[Stu Jackson]

If you wait, it may be gone.

The saloon table is very, very nice.  The boat, from pictures, looks fine.

Datamarine instruments are just fine, mine still work! 

The Catalina Smile issue at the keel joint is usually simply fairing in new epoxy.  There's also a long article from this forum linked on the 101 Topics to dropping the keel to repair.  Most haven't had to do that, but if you need to, know the information is available at your fingertips.

[britinusa]

We just purchased our C34 Fin Keel Tall rig just a couple of months ago.

If you have been looking for some time, you already know that the pictures may not be current.

I would ask the broker what date the pics were taken!

Our worst case example was a boat the look absolutely gorgeous in the photos sent to us by the owner, above and below the water, she was an awesome boat.

On the day that I went to view the boat, as I approached the dock, my reaction was 'That can't be the boat' and accepting the invitation by the onboard owner to come down to the cabin, the smell of mildew was awful!

From that moment on, I inquired about the age of the pics before I even considered going to see the boat.

Paul

[Ron Hill]

ccap : I'd go and look at the boat yourself, Port Washington isn't that much further north of Milwaukee.

Any boat is going to have to be pulled for a survey.  

a thought

[Fred Koehlmann]

We traveled over three hours from Toronto to Sackets Harbor and spent the weekend to view our current boat. The trip is worth it even if you don't decide on the boat. In our case it worked in our favour, and we did buy it. We met the surveyor and went over every item, including where he found moisture in the deck.

You say you are not into a project boat and that's probably the way to go for a first time boat, since there will be plenty enough stuff to wrap your head around, but definitely meet with a surveyor and have the boat hauled out to check the hull. Schedule the meet so that you see it in the water with the surveyor, and if you still interested in the boat after you hear what they have to say, pay to have it hauled and see the rest of it. Just a thought.