FOOT MARKS ON HEAD SAIL

[stevewitt1]

Hello all fellow 34-skippers!!!

I must tap the collective knowledge of all you experienced sailboat skippers.

Last year I ordered a new 150% Genoa.  Part of my order was to include 3 marks on the foot of the sail designating '130', 110', and 100% as a guide to tell me where I happen to furl the sail.  I've had these added to head sails that I've had made for my 27' Catalina and my 31' Allmand in the past.

Previously these marks were on the foot of the sail starting from the tack working back towards the clew.  When I furled to the first mark, I still had 130%, the second 110% and 100% when furled to the last.

On my new sail, the marks start close to the clew and work towards the tack.  I called the sail-maker and was told many sailors like the marks that way.  I have yet to figure out what to reference them to.


Does anyone here have furling marks on the foot of their sail from the clew working forward?  If so, what do you reference them too.

Sincerely
Steve

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[Gary Brockman]

I have never seen these marks on the clew side, only the tack side. If the sail is made to reef to these points, you can usually see where the sail is reinforced to carry the load at these points. I would ask the sailmaker to add marks where you want them.

Gary

[Ron Volk]

Steve,
Don't know if i'm understanding what you are saying. What mark do they have closest to the clew?

[stevewitt1]

excuse my lack of artistic ability but:

If my image show up.   the blue foot marks are where I expected them but they were put where the red marks are.

Does anyone know how I would use the red marks?????

Steve

[Noah]

Seems back asswards to me but apparently your sailmaker assumes you will judge your furled/unfurled amount of sail from the mast, not from the head stay?

[Ron Volk]

Steve,

Now I understand your dilemma, I sure can't figure out how I would use them either, other than running your leach up the luff and using the tack as the clew.  How about asking your sail maker to come out and show you how to use these marks and if there is a simple explanation please let us know.  

[stevewitt1]

Using them in relationship to either shrouds or the mast to judge the sail was the explanation he gave me.  The problem I have with that is that if we are to furl to a desired size of say 130%,  then any angle one looks at a mark aligned with either a shroud or mast would be different unless there is an exact position one has to view from and a fixed reference on rigging on the boat.   

I will send a link to this thread to the sailmaker and really would just like an explanation that is real or admission that they were applied wrong and a plan of remedial action.  Am I being a d***head by expecting that???


Steve

[mregan]

I'd send it back and have them put where you wanted them.  How long can it take him to sew the marks on, 15 minutes, it shouldn't be an issue for him.

[Roc]

Had this discussion with a sail maker once.  To put marks showing the genoa is at 110, 130 or so, really makes no difference.  If you are furling in the headsail, based on a particular wind condition, you will furl it in to the size (exposed area) you feel is the best for that condition.  Does it matter if it's at 130 or slightly more or less? 

[KWKloeber]

excuse my lack of artistic ability but:

If my image show up.   the blue foot marks are where I expected them but they were put where the red marks are.

Does anyone know how I would use the red marks?????

Steve

Seems like it's personal preference?  I could see where at the tack it might be difficult to see for some, whereas if they line up with something convenient they it might be easier to see at the clew...  esp if you have a foredeck crew.  I would think if you're close hauled, the clew would  ne tight enough to the rail to cut down on error due to angle of vision (or is it that critical anyway?)   

If I was the sailmaker, I'd redo it how the customer wanted since there are two ways and I hadn't asked.   If I were the customer, and the sailmaker was good, I'd offer to pay half of whatever to redo it, for the same reason...

ken

[sailr4]

I think most sailors want the marks on the outside (clew side) so that is does not matter how tightly the sail is furled.  I the sail's 150, 130 100% designations are in relation to the mast anyway.  Personal preference I guess.

Rob

[KWKloeber]

I think most sailors want the marks on the outside (clew side) so that is does not matter how tightly the sail is furled.  I the sail's 150, 130 100% designations are in relation to the mast anyway.  Personal preference I guess.

Rob

That reasoning seems to be backwards. 
In theory they would be identical if one used say, a stanchion as the control point, and the genny was stretched perfectly tight and 'straight."   However, if there's any billow in the sail, then it matters which point you choose as "fixed." 

If the mark is near the clew, the dimension that is 'fixed' is the distance from the clew to the mark (i.e., stanchion.) If furled tight, there's "X" genny exposed between the stanchion and headstay.   If furled loose, there's "X+billow" genny exposed between the mark (i.e, stanchion) and headstay.

If using a mark on the tack corner, the exposed sail will always be from the clew to the mark, and will never vary no matter how the genny is furled -- loose or tight,  or how the sail is trimmed.  There's always "X" canvas exposed behind the headstay.

Or am I missing the point on this?

Ken

[Noah]

Kind of a glass half empty, glass half full argument. Your sailmaker fthinking was genoa sheeted flat and measuring from mast/stays. Same calculation of percentage of sail deployed/furled. Unfornuately it was not from your intended refernce point (the headstay/furler). He should redo it... From a good customer service standpoint.