Keels, Tall Rigs, etc.

[KWKloeber]

Sounds fishy to me. All that info (hull number, boat name, etc.) should be public knowledge once it is "listed for sale" by a broker. As far as a survey goes... an old survey provided by the seller should be taken with a grain of salt, unless very recent, then it still needs to be verified. Usually a buyer's survey is only undertaken once a  sale price is agreed (contigent upon survey) and offer is accepted. Don't know how you would get a "surveyor's value" prior to those steps. Even if you got one, value (to you) is what you are willing to pay. Price is set by the selller. Both don't necessarily jibe.

Noah,

Not "advertising", in fact more to the point "hiding" identifying info is a commonplace policy w/ brokerages.  When I was with e-global, (I now broker independently) all us brokers had to hide info, e.g., blur out hull or doc numbers / names/hailing ports on photos. Only general locations could be listed (e.g., NY or CA, never "buffalo" or "san fran."  and never reveal the marina/yard.

There were some very practical reasons -- we're representing an owner who doesn't want to be bothered with trying to sell a boat -- so they certainly don't want public rudder kickers walking the docks searching for their boat.  Nor being annoyed with phone calls from rudder kickers who want to take a Sunday afternoon joy ride --  oh, I meant "sea trial." 

I've even known of where an owner was aboard (asleep) and prospects climbed on board wanting to see the boat.  And then got annoyed when the owner asked them to leave.

The other reason is protection of the broker's business -- most contracts, though called a central agreement and being exclusive to one broker -- do not protect the broker at all.  The owner can sell the boat and as a practical matter after investing maybe a hundred hours in the client/listing, the broker is left high and dry.  It just isn't worth pursuing it to enforce the contract terms when a third party does an end around the brokerage house.   So if the surveyor works for a party, releasing the party's info to the world is not very professional and s/he would never get a recommendation again.  Our contracts were written a little differently - the owner could sell it independently, but had to pay an "advertising fee".  We rarely ever saw even that when the owner decided s/he was going to break the contact.


Ken

[Noah]

Interesting persepective. I have owned 6 boats (27ft.-42ft.) and bought and sold all of them through CA Licensed brokers. And, in the process I have done a lot of boat shopping. I have never encountered any issue of being refused the hull number or requested to not reveal it, or any other info material to understanding what the boat "is" that is for sale, or selling.  It is expected that brokers wouldn't reveal the owner's name or contact info, but facts material to the boat itself, never heard that one before.

[KWKloeber]

Interesting persepective. I have owned 6 boats (27ft.-42ft.) and bought and sold all of them through CA Licensed brokers. And, in the process I have done a lot of boat shopping. I have never encountered any issue of being refused the hull number or requested to not reveal it, or any other info material to understanding what the boat "is" that is for sale, or selling.  It is expected that brokers wouldn't reveal the owner's name or contact info, but facts material to the boat itself, never heard that one before.

Noah,  You're absolutely correct. but a HIN, doc number, boat name or hailing port is irrelevant as to what is materially offered for sale, and irrelevant as to whether the prospect wants to arrange a showing.  Once shown, then s/he's on the hook (as with a real estate agent).  Someone trying to do an end-around the brokerage (i.e., split the 10% 'savings' with the seller) can usually, sometimes with very minimal sleuthing, locate the owner and start negotiating.  
Doc number = owner's name and location.  
Hailing port/boat name = easy to locate marina and find out the owner of "name" boat, and start asking questions.

Believe me.... I've done it and it's fairly easy with the 'net to make what seems like unrelated pieces of data fit together.  

Best illustrated by a real world example -- put yourself in the seller's place on this one...

I located a Mainship trawler in TX, given the boat name in a photograph (pretty innocuous, right?)  
I found out the owner, place of business/address/phone, home phone/address/assessed value, spouse's info, how many $$ he donated to local charity, his place of worship/phone/fax, and eventually what marina and slip he had (all from my desk) and then confirmed the boat/slip through aerial photos kindly flown and supplied by the county.  And then called and talked to one of the kitchen staff at his place of worship - who was all the willing to spill everything he knew about Mr. X, including how often he used the boat, that he had been trying to sell her for Y years, and was now desperate to unload her.
Given that, put me in the best negotiation position, but still ethically went thru the local broker to do the deal, and got it for my client for about 80% of what she "should" have sold for.   But all were happy in the end, especially because my client was willing to go the listing price because he wanted THAT particular boat and would have been happy with that.  But he saved nearly $16K, which would have went to their client had the listing brokerage not published one little piece of innocuous "boat" information for the world to see.

It's a dog-eat-dog world (unfortunately.)

kk

PS Ca is a little different because I think it's one of only 2 states (and Fl) that license yacht brokers.  We wouldn't directly broker to/from CA or FL, but would refer to local brokers and arrange a "finder's fee" if the deal was done.

[Noah]

Wow! It's a shame how easily greed and the pursuit of "a deal"
can suck the Corinthian Spirit out of yachting...

[KWKloeber]

Wow! It's a shame how easily greed and the pursuit of "a deal"
can suck the Corinthian Spirit out of yachting...

I dunno - Greed may be too strong a characterization - I look at it thu a different lens - The average Joe/Jane can't afford 16K out of their pocket, and sometimes it would be a deal-maker or -breaker as to getting into or moving up in the sport.  That 16K was a LOT more important to one party than the other, believe me.  "Cash Flow" was the boat name if that's any indication.    

Yet, sometimes, it's all about the hunt and not the kill.

And sometimes the end-around is simply to stick it to leach brokers, who are useless scum, don't do anything for their commission, just gum up the works, and get in the way of getting the best deal monetarily, bla bla bla

When I bought mine, I found out the owner, negotiated what we could live with in a 5-min conversation and sealed it with a beer/handshake, and THEN made an offer through the broker.  I didn't care to play the negotiation game, so cut right to the chase.
Broker wasn't very happy with his client when he found out that we had agreed to a price without his "okay."  He just wanted to control the transaction -- everyone still got everything they wanted w/o all the BS and game playing.  

It all comes down to the broker being able to read the situation and acting accordingly -- in a professional and ethical manner -- to get all parties what they can live with.

Then there's brokers who will fight to the last dollar because it's another 10 cents in their pockets.  That negotiation model never made economic sense to me, but those are the guys who leave the bad broker taste in buyer's mouths.

kk

[Hokie]

I don't want to make enemies but how would a 1989 C34 compare to a 1989 Pearson 33 or a 1990 Pearson 31?

[Jim Hardesty]

Good boats.  See if you like the cockpit.  Pearson put in a contoured seat that I find unconfortable after a time.
Just my 2 cents.
Jim

[Stu Jackson]

As you've found out by now, we don't make "enemies lists" here.  

Pearsons are very nice boats, well built, and have good reputations.  You simply won't find too many Pearson owners here for obvious reasons, but  some of us might have owned them in a prior life.  We'll see.

A 33 might be comparable, but the wider beam and aft sections carried further aft in the water would make the C34 a better light air sailor.

I'm not a big fan of having to climb through and over the galley to get to the cockpit.

The teak cap rail is a PITA to maintain and the decks don't drain very well, especially aft near where the cabintop comes down to the coaming.

Those Pearsons were designed and built way before Gerry & Frank designed the C34.

Check the boat dimensions and you'll see.

The C30 would be more comparable to the 31, and the 31 is narrower, IIRC.  The C30 is usually the best bang for your buck in that size range.

As always, CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION will dictate the "value."

Perhaps mentioned before, Hokie, is the ONLINE support group available.  If you don't have a resource like this forum and website, you'd be reinventing the wheel or searching the internet for far longer than it would take you to do some work.

We had a P33 next to us for many, many years.  Compare the hardware, too.  Winches OK, but blocks, traveler and other stuff not so much.

Happy hunting.

[Roc]

The "advantage" of having a Catalina is the builder is still in business!  Even though the C34 is out of production, you still can go to CY and the people there can help you out.

[chuck53]

I don't want to make enemies but how would a 1989 C34 compare to a 1989 Pearson 33 or a 1990 Pearson 31?

OK, not trying to give you a hard time on this, but it's time to get off the computer and actually walk docks and get brokers to take you on boats so you can make up your own mind comparing one model against the other.
When looking for our C34, we looked at a P33.  We didn't care for the layout of the aft cabin and knowing it would be used a fair amount, we scratched it off our list.  Didn't bother to look at a P31 as we wanted something at least in the 33-34' range.

[Fred Koehlmann]

Hokie,

Chuck is right. You've got to get onto the boats. Looking online is fine when you know what you want and are looking for it, but you need to get into the boat to get the feel for if its right for you or not.

I grew up sailing smaller keel-boats and so was pretty comfortable with something like a Grampian 26, but when we started looking for a boat we already knew that we wanted more space that what either of our parents had on their boats, so we decided on the 30 foot range. We went to boat shows, especially in water shows. We looked at cheaper older ones as well as newer models, and developed a list of what our requirement were and their priority. We thought we wanted a CS 30, but then we fortunately/unfortunately inherited my father-in-laws C&C 30. After a year of it and determining what we need to make a true cruising boat for Georgian Bay, we realized that I could spend forever fixing it up, or we could spend a bit more and get the boat we probably would get when our kids (two boys) got bigger (they always grow faster than you expect).

Because of the research we had already done looking around we new that one of the boats we were interested in was the Catalina 34, and then we just searched for the right one. We also knew that we want a MKII because we were interested in a number of "modern" design features that it had compared to older vessels ( not just Catalina's). Eventually something came up, and we purchased it. The whole process is a very personal experience and no one can tell you what will work for you. You need to spend the time to figure that out.

Cheers, and good hunting.

[Clay Greene]

It's funny you mention Pearsons as I was in the boat yard this past weekend and was talking to a Pearson owner about our respective boats.  He said words to the effect of, "when something breaks on your boat, you can call the manufacturer or a dealer.  When something breaks on my boat, I either have to fix it myself or find someone to make me a replacement."  The reality is that things are going to break on whatever boat you buy.  The support you would get here, from CY directly, from CY dealers, or the companies like Catalina Direct that sell replacement parts, is quite literally invaluable.  I had good experiences chartering Pearsons and we almost bought a Pearson 303 before we got our C34, but knowing now what it is like to own a cruising boat, I am very glad that I bought a Catalina because the company is still here and it stands by its products. 

[Hokie]

Hi,
Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on a circa 1989 Catalina 36 tall rig? I'm looking at one for sale in New York and any comments on the boat would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Hokie

[Stu Jackson]

Hokie,

1.  Do a search here on Catalina 36.  There have been a few discussions about the differences (so we don't have to reinvent the wheel).

2.  Go to the Catalina 36 Association forum and ask there (www.c36.org or www.catalina36.org).

3.  Tall rigs always have to reef earlier.


Good luck.

[chuck53]

Hi,
Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on a circa 1989 Catalina 36 tall rig? I'm looking at one for sale in New York and any comments on the boat would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Hokie

OK, sounds like you are still computer shopping which isn't a bad thing but when are you going to start actually looking at boats?