Keel Bolt To Bilge Spacer?

[Jon W]

Went on a successful sea trial with the owner of hull #493, the boat I almost own. The current owner said when he purchased the boat there was wood encased in fiberglass between the keel bolt washers and the bilge bottom. (Sounded like it was a spacer). The wood was damaged from water so he removed all of it, and re-torqued the keel bolts/washers/nuts so they are clamping down directly to the bottom of the bilge. No spacer. Is there supposed to be a spacer/ something between the keel bolt washer and bilge bottom? I didn't find anything discussing this particular situation. Thanks for the help. Jon W.

[Stu Jackson]

Hi, Jon, and welcome.

From an advanced search on "keel" by Rick Allen, this is the first of four or five discussions and includes a link to Dan & Dar's keel drop and rebedding.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8132.0.html

Do that search and read some more.

I'm pretty sure Rick posted the Catalina diagram of that assembly.  I'll see if I can find it.

Happy Hunting.

Jon,

I found it.  It is in what would be the third or fourth "find" on that search I suggested (Floor beams):

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3381.msg34350.html#msg34350

You should read the others, too.

Good luck.

Stu


[keel construction]

[Jon W]

Hi Stu. I had found the thread from Rick Allen, and read most of what was there and the connecting links. However the picture he referred to didn't display so wasn't sure if he was only talking about the mast step, which was most of the text, or also the bilge floor. The drawing from your link did display and it is exactly what I was asking about, thanks very much.

I would like your and others opinions on whether I'm overthinking or not -

My concern was whether the integrity of the keel attachment was dependent on the wood being present for the additional thickness, ie acting as a doubler to increase the lateral stiffness to deal with ocean forces. From the dwg you pointed me to, it appears that the fix is to remove the wood and reglass with only 3 layers, a 6 " lip around the bilge, and reseal with gel coat. I don't see the requirement/recommendation to glass up to the original thickness of wood plus glass. This would lead me to believe the additional thickness from the wood plus glass is not necessary. Is that what you understand also?

If it isn't, I wonder why they would go to the trouble to put it in there?

It looks to me like the current owner made the repair per the drawing. Hopefully I'm in the clear, but guess I'll have to cut a deep socket in half to make it longer like was suggested here.

Jon W.

[Ted Pounds]

Went on a successful sea trial with the owner of hull #493, the boat I almost own. The current owner said when he purchased the boat there was wood encased in fiberglass between the keel bolt washers and the bilge bottom. (Sounded like it was a spacer). The wood was damaged from water so he removed all of it, and re-torqued the keel bolts/washers/nuts so they are clamping down directly to the bottom of the bilge. No spacer. Is there supposed to be a spacer/ something between the keel bolt washer and bilge bottom? I didn't find anything discussing this particular situation. Thanks for the help. Jon W.

Try calling Catalina.  They're usually very good about answering such questions.  You might even get to talk to Gerry Douglas himself...

[Jon W]

Where can I find the phone number? The Catalina Yachts website only has an E-mail contact.  Jon W.

[Jon W]

I found phone numbers for Woodland Hills, CA and Largo, Fl at the bottom of the Catalina Yachts website. I'll call them tomorrow, hopefully they will be able to put me in contact with the right people. I also sent an E-mail to the customer support link. Will let everyone know what happens. Thanks again for all the outstanding help to a newcomer.  Jon W.

[Rick Allen]

Hi Jon, I do have pictures of my wood being chiseled out and the diagram from Catalina on the the correct way to remove and the wood below the keel bolts. They seem to be on a hard drive at my office and I can post them on Wednesday.

Rick.

[Jon W]

Hi Rick, I saw your response on the "wood under mast step" thread. Thanks and I'll keep looking for the pictures.

To give an update on my concerns whether there was a structural concern; today I got an answer from Warren Pandy at Catalina's Largo office.

Short version the answer is no structural concern by removing the wood core and not replacing the same built up thickness.

Longer version -
Per Warren, if the procedure for removal and repair of the bilge floor as shown in the drawing is followed there are no structural concerns. The plywood core fiberglass construction in addition to the approximate 1" hull thickness was a method originally used to increase stiffness in the bilge floor area. Although it added a measure of increased stiffness, around 1989 (in another thread hull #700 and newer was identified) the plywood core fiberglass construction method for the bilge floor was discontinued.

A couple of reasons for this:
1) determined it wasn't really needed.
2) water getting into the bilge is a reality, and customer feedback about wood damage and the risk of loose keel bolts caused them to revisit the design.

As a result, Catalina Yachts went to and continues to build with an all fiberglass construction method similar to that described in the repair procedure in addition to the approximate 1" hull thickness. No wood.

In my case, it turns out the current (now previous) owner had the boat hauled and redone in a local boat yard per the procedure outlined in the drawing. He also had the keel dropped, rebedded, and re-glassed. Looks like I need to start paying membership dues.

Thanks again to all.
Jon W.