water in bilge

[garyw]

Hi
I was trying to figure out where the water was coming from in my bilge and after targeting some obvious leaks I decided to try a different approach  and so today I took a shop van and sucked out all the water in the bilge and similar to  a prior post when the bilge was completely dry , I watched as tiny trickle of water seemed to come from the floor of the bilge , the most forward compartment.   It didn't seem to be coming from the keel bolts at all but more from the bilge floor itself.  While I've had the boat in the water for the past month, the water never increases so much that I'm concerned about a big leak but I'm not  sure what the next step is.   

This is a new boat for me but I believe there was a remote grounding many years ago.  Before I put it in the water for the first time,  this summer, I noticed the catalina smile.      There is also  black material coating the bottom of the bilge in spots. 

Other then what has been recommended in the prior post: 

tighten the keel bolts which wouldn't apply to me if the water is coming from around the bolts 

take boat out of water and fix smile

rebed keel which I 'd really like to avoid

is there any value to putting some water proof material on the bilge floor to keep the water out.    I wonder if that is the black material I see in spots in the bilge.

Also how does one know  whether fixing the smile is enough.  When does one have to consider rebidding the keel.

Thanks

Gary W
Catalina 34
Summer Wind
1986

[Ron Hill]

Gary : You didn't mention if you have a keel or deck stepped mast?? 
I believe that the fwd compartment has only 1 keel bolt and there should be a small (1") PVC pipe passing thru from the compartment in front of the mast step to the compartment aft of the mast.

Is the trickle of water coming from the area around the PVC pipe?   

[garyw]

Hi
It is a deck stepped mast with a support post.

The forward bilge compartment has 1 keel bolt and I didn't see any hose but the water seems to be coming in just after of the keel bolt from the bilge floor. 


Gary

[mregan]

Gary
I had the same issue on my '86.  The keel bolts don't sit flat on the bottom of the bilge.   Almost looks like the keel bolts were overtightened and crushed the fiberglass bottom of the bilge so now there is an indentation around the bolts.  Also, a few years before I bought her, the PO had hit a rock.  Didn't do any permanent damage but I think that might have been the cause of the sunken keel bolts. 
Anyway, seems to be some small cracks around the bolts.  When I suck any water out of the bilge, water slowly fills back up around the keel bolts. 
If I get the bilge perfectly dry, water doesn't keep coming in so I know the bolts aren't leaking.  Next time on the hard I plan to remove the nuts & washers epoxy in the cracks and re-install the nuts/washers.

[Indian Falls]

I don't know why the search function won't find this, I had to go through all my posts to find it.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.msg46165.html#msg46165

I dropped and re-bedded my keel because I had water leaking into the boat, and leaking out when on the hard.


(It's almost like the search function can only look back a week or two)

[garyw]

Thanks  to you both .   

Indian Falls , what an amazing project ; I hope I don't have to do that but  do feel better knowing it's doable and that I can follow what you already did.   Mregan , sounds like our situation is similar although I think my water leak comes back even after the bilge is completely dry , not sure if that is your situation too.   

Does it make sense for me to first start with rebedding the keel bolts and maybe rebidding the floor of the bilge  and see what happens and then if it doesn't work to go for the bigger job of completely rebedding the keel.   I don't know if water is leaking out after the boat is hauled since I'm a new owner .   I guess if I also saw that , I'd go with the complete rebedding .


Thanks again for your help. 

Gary

[Stu Jackson]

I don't know why the search function won't find this, I had to go through all my posts to find it.
(It's almost like the search function can only look back a week or two)

Dan,

1.  Use the advanced search feature, using your name, too.  I found it in 15 seconds.

2.  I "tagged" your great topic with "Catalina Smile w/flix"

[Indian Falls]

Gary
Here's the thing.  If water is entering the keel stub how does it get out for winter storage?
You saw the huge void I had in my keel joint.  I had rusty water and diesel running out of the smile.
The rust is from the steel lift points cast into the lead.  I could not keep anti freeze in the bilge. It would run out. I couldn't allow water to keep freezing inside the joint and then go sailing like it can't do any damage
I did a lot of internet research before pulling the trigger on this. None of the suggested bedding of washers or anything thing else were or would have been effective.  If you have want to pass on this I don't blame you.
Just leave it be and mop out your bilge.  Put lots antifreeze in when on the hard.

[Rick Allen]

Please don't forget that C34's built prior to mid year 1988 have wood under the glass in the bilge. Constant water in the bilge can infiltrate below the keel bolts and easily rot that wood. Replacement is not fun and quite expensive.. (Trust me, I know...)

Also, have you checked for leaks around speed sensor (Paddlewheel)? It is usually mounted forward of the mast below the floor of the v-berth, or just aft.

Good Luck!

[garyw]

I'm following up on this prior post as now i have hauled out the boat and i still see water leaking into the most forward bilge compartment from the floor of the bilge near the bolts, even though the boat is out of the water.    ( when the boat was in the water i worried that the water was coming in from outside the boat) There is no water leaking from the keel itself.  So not sure where the water is coming from unless there is a pocket of water in the keel.   Any thoughts.   

Thanks

Gary W

[Indian Falls]

Gary, good news is something is leaking when not in the water. That rules out keel stub, keel bolt problems.
So you have water coming in from someplace north of the water line and that's easy to fix, not so easy to pinpoint.
Dry erase marker, powdered koolaid, baby powder, just to name a few...  are indicators to help find leaks into the bilge.  I use toilet paper. 
Lay it around, it if gets wet you know it got wet.  Usual suspects are stantions, anchor locker, plumbing leaks, tank leaks, port leaks.
Good news is you can start eliminating the aformentioned one by one.

[garyw]

Thanks.  Do you think the leaks from the areas you mentioned could still be causing water to come up from the floor of the bilge as it is not leaking down the sides.   I can see it accumulate after i suction out the water and then shine a light on the area.     

[mregan]

I think you may have some small voids under the bilge floor which fill with water when the bilge gets wet.  When you suck out the visible bilge water, the water underneath comes out.  Like I mentioned previously, I had the same issue.  Once I got the bilge fully dry and no more water coming up through the floor, I smeared some epoxy around the cracks/areas where the water would come up.  Seems to have done the trick for me.
I would do what Indian mentioned and put some chalk/powder around the sides of the bilge.  Then you can see where the water is coming from.  Also put some around the mast base.  I was getting a lot of water down the mast from a leak in the mast boot.  Whenever I was at the boat the bilge was full but never saw any water stains down the mast.  If you are only getting water in that front compartment, I would think the mast may be the culprit.  Most of the usual leak culprits, stanchions, cockpit lockers, fill up the aft bilge first.

[lazybone]

Is there a water tank under the V-berth?

Some early 34's had a forward tank.

[Ralph Masters]

December 1 I haul Ciao Bella out to have the keel re-bedded because of water intrusion via the Catalina smile.  The first bolt and the third set of bolts back get water around them, not while sitting dockside but while under way, when water pressure is greatest on the front of the smile.  I noticed the water about 3 months ago around the third set of bolts back.  Right up around the washer on the port bolt.  The boat when purchased 5 years ago had the smile and it has grown since.

Ralph