Adjustment of side stays on C34 mark2

[travlinon]

I am in the process of making my mast vertical, having a lean to port of 220mm. The upper stays have stainless steel turnbuckles on them and are easily adjusted however all the lower stays have brass turnbuckles which are turning at the most one turn - not anywhere enough and I am worried that too much pressure would cause failure of the fitting. I have used a penetrating oil without much joy.
The brass turnbuckles have a small amount of surface corrosion which I have cleared off as well as on the stainless threads and wonder if my problem is either internal corrosion or perhaps some form of lock tite has been used in the past. Would it be advisable to heat the brass turnbuckle or is there another method?.
I see from a previous recent thread that the turnbuckles were replaced after being removed.


Thanks
Ken

[John Langford]

I am amazed that the lower shroud turnbuckles are brass. Hopefully, they are actually bronze. I have a 1999 MkII and all the turnbuckle bodies are chromed bronze with all the rest of the toggles etc in stainless steel.

Assuming the bodies are bronze then there may be what is referred to as galling between the SS threaded rods and the body of the turnbuckle which is caused by lack of lubrication, salt crystals, and a lot of tension. I would try something like PB Blaster to get the turnbuckle moving (try to loosen at first rather than tighten) and then use some sort of lanolin based lubricant on the threads to keep them running free. I use straight lanolin myself.

I hope that helps.

[2ndwish]

So that works out to something like 4.3 inches of extra shroud length on one side and 4.3 inches too little on the other- an 8.6" shroud differential. Sounds pretty big, most of the range of the turnbuckle. Are you sure the boat was not listing 1 degree when it was measured? Did you sight the backstay against the mast?

[travlinon]

Thanks for the replies
John, they are probably bronze as I must admit that I wouldn't know the difference   . I will try to obtain that PB Blaster you mentioned as the Inox appears to not being as effective as hoped.Today I spoke to another Catalina owner who had the same problem and ended up continually applying a penetrating lubricant for a month to get them to move. I have some lanolin to use after.

2ndwish, unfortunately as a retired surveyor I am obsessive about things being vertical etc and as my boat is penned opposite to where the parking area at the yacht club is I can see the lean every time I drive in. On an absolutely still day I was able to measure electronically exactly the lean of the mast and position of deck connection for shrouds and from this determine the amount to adjust the shrouds which worked out to 20mm each side. This adjustment worked but due to not being able to adjust the inner stays the result was a sideways bend in the mast. I need to spend more time on the water and forget about levels and verticals.

[Ron Hill]

Ken : Your boat is approaching the "replace the standing rigging date of 15 years".  I'd go and readjust them and if you have to replace the turnbuckles - so be it!!  
One thing less, when you do replace "everything pin to pin!!  At least you'll have a straight up mast!!

A thought

[travlinon]

Ron, thanks for the advice on replacing the standing rigging after fifteen years. I have applied a moderate amount of heat to the turnbuckles without any luck so have adjusted everything back to as it was and will keep applying Inox for a period to see if it improves movement. If I have any luck I will adjust the mast to vertical. Regardless I will replace all standing rigging as suggested and change the turnbuckles to stainless at the end of the year.
I think it would be a good recommendation for anyone with these type of turnbuckles to ensure they are lubricated annually to keep them serviceable.

[tonywright]

as my boat is penned opposite to where the parking area at the yacht club is I can see the lean every time I drive in. On an absolutely still day I was able to measure electronically exactly the lean of the mast and position of deck connection for shrouds and from this determine the amount to adjust the shrouds which worked out to 20mm each side.

But since every MKII has a lean to port, won't you still see the mast "leaning" from your parking lot even after you are sure it is completely vertical relative to the deck? 

re grease, I use a grease containing graphite and quartz particles from DeoxIT. Seems to work well to keep turnbuckles from seizing.

[travlinon]

I was interested to see in your reply that every mark2 has a lean to port as I hadn't come across this before. I originally started this project to check the height of the mast above water level the measured value being 14.62m fairly different to the value given in the specs of 15.11m. There is a 2004 Catalina 34 next door to me which is a wing keel and it's mast height above water was 14.60m and vertical to within 10mm.
Basically my aim is to set the mast vertical to the water, although this is probably contrary to standard practise I have worked out that the deck at the mast may be slightly out of level possibly from manufacture (or the boat is heeled even though everything is in its normal position). As I look at it the mast after adjustment will be presenting the sail the same on either tack rather than the way it is now.
I don't think I will see any improvement in performance but aesthetically (to me) it should be a vast improvement. When (and if) I can loosen the turnbuckles  i will certainly check out the grease you have suggested.

[tommyt]

PB Blaster will take care of your turnbuckle issue. Great stuff. Just have a rag handy as it drips.

When you get the rig tuned correctly it will make a difference. The boat does have a natural lean to it, so it will be interesting to see what happens when you get it in column to the water. By the way, as an ARE you would be a riggers nightmare, but probably teach them a few things along the way.

I cannot tell you how many times I tweaked my rig trying to get the same performance on port and starboard tacks. Speedo kept giving me a difference of .3 to 1.okts difference. Finally checked it wity two seperate GPS's and the speed was the same. I determineed that the difference was where the paddle was mounted  for the speedo. As it is at the bow on the port side the difference ( at least in my mind) is that the water pressure was differenct enough on seperate tacks to give me a different reading.

[tonywright]

The lower height than spec can be related to the fact that many of us have noted a much higher measured weight than advertised. With no mast and empty water tanks my boat weighs about 16,300 lbs. You will find some other specs off as well, such as the size of the holding tank!

If you want vertical in the water, I suggest you add weight on the starboard side until the deck is level athwart. To measure this from shore you could zip tie a 6ft pole on a stanchion each side and sight it.

The simple method that I use to check for vertical alignment is to use a halyard attached to the masthead and hold it to a stanchion base each side. Just make sure you allow for halyard stretch.

Tony

[Stu Jackson]

If you want vertical in the water, I suggest you add weight on the starboard side until the deck is level athwart. 

And the best way to do this is to add batteries. 

[Jim Hardesty]

Just stepped my mast and had a similar thing happen.   My problem was the cotter pin hole on the lower stud.  Got a small burr where the pin hole went through the threads.  A little file work and all is good.  A better way is the way the shroud studs are made, the diameter at the cotter pin holes is smaller than the threads.
Hope this helps.
Jim