Securing the anchor line

[Steve_in_lex]

I have a 2005 MK II with 20' of chain and rope for the rest of the rode.   In order to secure the anchor line when at anchor, do you recommend...

(a) leading the line from the bow roller directly to the horizontal cleat in the anchor well
(b) looping the line around the windlass and then to the cleat, or
(c) taking the line off the roller and tying it directly to one of the bow cleats on the deck? 

I'm thinking (a), but wonder if the windlass should bear some of the strain.  Is the cleat in the anchor well good and strong?

Thanks.

[kwaltersmi]

We keep the line on the roller and cleat it off with one of the deck cleats.  I use a piece of rubber hose or Spiroll for chafe protection where the line jumps over the edge of rollers frame to reach the cleat.  The cleat in our anchor well is smaller and not metal, which doesn't inspire confidence.  We only use that one to help secure the anchor when it's stored on the roller.

[Roc]

I cleat it to the horizontal cleat in the anchor well.  Then I take the line and lead it to one of the bow cleats.  My thought is the cleat in the anchor well gives way, the line is still attached to one of the bow cleats.

[Steve_in_lex]

I like that idea, Roc...belt and suspenders.  Thanks.

[Ken Juul]

Double cleat the line if you like, but definitely don't use the windlass.  They are not designed for that purpose.  If you wanted you could actually use the horizontal cleat as a turning block and cleat it on each of the bow cleats.  Hurricane protection maybe.....storms with up to 40-50 knot gusts any of the cleats should hold on their own.

[scotty]

I actually installed a windlass, and in doing so added a horizontal cleat in the anchor well.  The whole assembly was bolted to the bulkhead with rather massive stainless plates, which I hid behind pieces of teak.  From the interior it was kind of invisible unless you really looked, then you just saw two horizontal pieces of teak.  You could easily add some similar cleat to your anchor well if you wanted.  What I really wanted to ask, however, is about your 20' of chain.  Do you feel that that is sufficient?  I live in a coastal area (Santa Cruz, CA) and went to a much longer chain (100').  There are a couple of threads on this forum that might prove interesting to you in regards to developing anchor systems for Catalina 34s.

[Ron Hill]

Steve : As I have advised before - I wouldn't use the cleat in the anchor well until I could determine that it has adequate backing.  

As Ken mentioned take a chain snubber(or as I do a Cunningham hook) in the chain and secure the snubber to a side cleat.  

A thought

[Wayne]

Steve, my boat came with 20' of chain which didn't reliably get the job done.  I now have 75' of chain at the end of my rode.  Personally, I wouldn't tie off to the cleat in the anchor locker; I don't know how the cleat is attached, and it is a lighter cleat than the ones on deck.  As others have said, the windlass is not designed to withstand the loads of anchoring.

[Steve_in_lex]

Thanks all for your comments.  I like the idea of more chain and using bow cleats to secure the line.

Steve

[Kent & Jane Overbeck]

I have found this topic to be very interesting but no one seems to have a solid answer as to how you secure a ROPE RODE in challenging conditions.  Most anything will work when the wind doesn't blow but, we, who have a ROPE RODE, really don't have any good options for storm conditions other than to take the rode from the roller and put it on a bow cleat.  This is awkward at best. The other options discussed are just doing the best you can with what you have.  For those with an all chain rode, it's simple as you are already rigged for a "snubber".  The problem for us is connecting the bridle or snubber line to the nylon rode.  I'm sure there is a way but I think very time consuming and would be difficult to adjust or release.
We have just finished the "Great Loop", about 6500 miles for us, and we anchored many times in varying conditions.  We always secured the rode to the well cleat as it left the windless.  We encountered winds at anchor of over 60 mph three times with no problem.  I now know, that even if we had no problems, this is not the proper or safe way to do it.
I called Warren Pandy at Catalina for their advice.  After several discussions, we both agreed that for boats using a ROPE RODE, there is no realistic way for storm conditions, and the best solution was to put a large cleat on the centerline directly aft of the anchor well.  With a proper backing plate, he said it would hold in any conditions.  It would be accessible, quick and easy to adjust.
Warren also pointed out that the anchor well cleat in "Carina", our 2001 MKII is more substantial and mounted differently than in earlier boats (photo attached) and should hold in most conditions, especially if there is a backing plate (I will check for a backing plate). 
For me, as we plan on cruising into unknown waters, I will be installing an extra cleat aft of the locker on the centerline.   It will help me sleep.

[scotty]

Kent and Jane,  Wow, you guys did the Great Loop.  How cool!!  Thanks for the information about the cleat.  Looking at your picture, I can see why you used the cleat in the well.  It is part of a very strong bulkhead.  I would think that with the proper backing plates, it would hold under even strong conditions.  I like the idea of using the bow cleat as a back-up.  In severe conditions you would be rigging several attachment points in addition to this.  One advantage is that this dosen't put a cleat on the deck.  The disadvantages of a cleat in the center behind the windlass is that it could be a snagging point for the sheets during tacks.  It also could be a tripping hazard when working at the bow.

[Jim Hardesty]

Kent & Jane,  Your post...."We always secured the rode to the well cleat as it left the windless."   
Think that a better way is to cleat the rode before it enters the windless.  That way no load on the windless.  I also have a 2001 model and think that the locker cleat is fine for all but huricane conditions.  FWIW Shamrock does have a backing plate on the locker cleat.   Checked that during a windless repair a couple of years ago.
Just a thought.
Jim

[Kent & Jane Overbeck]

Jim, thanks for the info on the backing plate.  You saved me a lot of trouble.   As I said in my post, I now know that was not the safe or correct way to do it.  I now will be going directly to the cleat in the future.  I still like the idea of a center cleat.  I went to the boat to check out Scotty's concerns and it doesn't look as though it's a problem regarding the sheets.  As for tripping, well we don't go that far forward except to anchor but it was a thought.  Thanks for the reply Scotty.

Cheers,  Kent

[Jim Hardesty]

Kent,
The backing plate is easy to check.   Just remove the panel over the v-berth shelf, at the bow.  The windless and the back side of the cleat are right there.  My windless problem was caused by loose connectors at the relay and windless.  I'ts worth checking that.  Just double check that the power is off.
Just a thought
Jim

[Ron Hill]

Guys : Depending on the production year of your boat, it may be a bit more difficult to remove the teak forward bulkhead panel on the bow side of the Vberth shelf than Jim says.

However, you can remove that teak bulkhead and check for a backing plate - it just may be more to remove to get that bulkhead out. 
I've never seen a factory install backing plate on the MKI C34s!!  Maybe Catalina did on the MKIIs, but I doubt it.

A thought