Inverter & DC Charger Sources

Ken Juul · October 02, 2013, 05:29:55 AM

Time to bite the bullet and add an inverter to the boat. I'm guessing 1000w should do the trick. Hair dryer or microwave (not at same time) would be the biggest loads. Suggestions on brands, size, how to mount and wire, etc. are welcome.

[modified title to include DC Chargers - lovely thread drift...Stu 10/28/2013]

Jim Hardesty · October 02, 2013, 06:19:23 AM

Ken,
4 seasons ago I installed a Xantrex XM1800 (modified sine wave). Reasons for my choice, built in automatic switching, size, features, and price. I'm happy with it. It runs my coffee maker (now a Kuerig K-cup), a small hair dryer, and my microwave (original equipment). The microwave didn't work at first. Then I took out light bulb (from the microwave) now it works just fine. It's great to be able to make a cup of coffee or heat up some food while sailing with little trouble.
I installed it where my macerator was removed. Close to battery and battery switch. Other things to install were cables that I had a welding supply shop make up, a battery on/off switch, and fuses that were put right at the battery post. Also I have the original battery setup.
Jim

Stu Jackson · October 02, 2013, 08:05:54 AM

Ken,

1. Please don't buy Xantrex equipment.

2. Size the inverter properly. Jim's story about taking out the light bulb is telling. Check the pricing between the 1500 watt and the 1000 watt inverter and make up your mind based on your particular microwave.

3. The choices are endless in terms of wiring: a) use the plugs on the inverter and run extension cords (yuck!) but doable; b) wire it in completely; c) wire it into selected circuits only. B is the easiest, requires energy management.

4. ATS - newer units comes with them built-in, avoiding the need to buy a Blue Sea 8032 or equivalent (see http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,833.0.html)

Good luck.

Ron Hill · October 02, 2013, 12:52:30 PM

Ken : Maybe one of our readers that gets Practical Sailor will tell us their latest on inverter selection!!

TonyP · October 02, 2013, 01:16:38 PM

Ken
Pure sine wave is better than modified sine wave (don't use a computer on modified sine).
I would get a size double of what you want you will need to cover the starting power spike.
cheers and good luck with your choice.
Tony

mainesail · October 02, 2013, 02:18:00 PM

Quote from: Ken Juul on October 02, 2013, 05:29:55 AM
Time to bite the bullet and add an inverter to the boat. I'm guessing 1000w should do the trick. Hair dryer or microwave (not at same time) would be the biggest loads. Suggestions on brands, size, how to mount and wire, etc. are welcome.

Brands - Mastervolt, Victron or Magnum

Keep in mind that most hair driers are between 1000 and 1875 watts.....

Mick Laver · October 02, 2013, 06:33:53 PM

Ken
I just installed a Magnum MMS 1012 inverter/charger under the stbd settee. We had to add a couple of vents (one near the intake and one by the exhaust) to assure proper cooling. This is a 1000w model but will peak higher for short periods. It runs my small 700w microwave just fine as well as my wife's hair dryer. It's also pure sine wave so electronics and the microwave *should* run better, but I have no empirical evidence that it makes any difference.

The 50A output matches well with my Honda 2000i generator. If I'd gone with a 2000w/100A model I would have had to throttle back the input on the inverter/charger because the Honda only puts out 20A.

I'd strongly recommend the remote monitoring/control panel (ME-ARC).

I've been very happy with it so far.

scotty · October 02, 2013, 08:48:39 PM

Stu, and others, please remind me (us) of the problems with Xantrex. Thankx!! (x, thankx xantrex, get it?)

Jim Hardesty · October 03, 2013, 05:27:43 AM

I have both Xantrex. A Trucharge 20 and a XM1800 inverter. I may not have bought them if I had seen the comments here first. May be I'm lucky, they both work just fine. Except for the light in the microwave thing, and that's not a big deal. I think that that is due to the square wave vrs full sine wave.
I'm not recommending Xantrex at all. Just saying that they are working for me.
Jim

Stu Jackson · October 03, 2013, 07:12:06 AM

Quote from: scotty on October 02, 2013, 08:48:39 PM
Stu, and others, please remind me (us) of the problems with Xantrex.

On many, many other sailing forums/message boards, skippers have been reporting "issues' with Xantrex products in terms of reliability and continuity of service, as well as poor customer service. They purchased Heart Interface, from Seattle, years ago, but never figured out what went on "under the hood" with the products. The ONLY thing they still make that IS worthwhile is the ECHO CHARGER, since they haven't changed anything. If you buy one, read the Electrical 101 topic, Maine Sail has promoted some installation manual improvements that Xantrex hasn't bothered to publish (in the past five or more years!).

If you have a choice, follow Maine Sail's advice. Or you'll just have to get lucky like Jim.

mainesail · October 03, 2013, 02:51:38 PM

Guys,

It was first Cruising Equipment Co., then Heart Interface and then Xantrex. The older stuff was pretty reliable though some products like the Link2000 & 2000R were quite quirky and the Freedom I/C's had some quirky PCB issues... Xantrex then bought Statpower of BC back in 1999 and acquired their TruCharge and Pro-Sine Inverter lines. The Pro-Sines were pretty tough reliability wise. I had multiple units literally burn up at the output FETS literally smoking up the PCB and smelling. I have some that were replaced two and three times and multiple units where the remote displays failed multiple times. That said the TruCharge units were not bad, except for the 40A, which seems to chew through fans.

Xantrex has historically IME been pretty poor in customer support though lately you can get a human on the line pretty easily. Does not mean they actually know anything though... Recently they came out with the TruCharge 2 and SW series inverters it seems this is when the real trouble began. I have had multiple issues with the TruCharge 2's..

Don't even get me going on the brand new SW2012 I/C I installed last week. I tried very hard to talk the owner into a good I/C but he insisted on the "X" brand because that is what the "builder installed" (yeah, and it FAILED).

Someday I may upload a video of the HORRENDOUS racket this thing makes when inverting. I won't go into specifics but it is certainly a design error....

As Stu said the Echo Charger is still a good product, as are the Xantrex Link-Lite and Link-Pro (of course not really made by Xantrex, just relabeled) and perhaps they have increased the reliability of the TruCharge2 chargers but after my experience last week with the only "X" I/C I have installed in three years being defective right out of the box..... Well...... Doh'.....

Should have listened to my own advice.......... Next time I will simply walk away from the job when an owner insists on an "X" product I dislike.....

I do think Xantrex is "trying" to do a better job with customer service but when I asked who would pay for the labor and time for the brand new, and defective, SW2012 Inverter/Charger they basically told me that myself and the owner are on the line.

This is why it is just easier to buy from a company that stands behind the product and does not allow issues like I have seen and had make it to market. Not all companies are perfect but some are more perfect than others and some try harder than others....

Ron Hill · October 06, 2013, 01:16:51 PM

For the C34 owners that say they don't need an inverter :

For the past 20+ years I never had or needed an inverter. Not even a small one because I could purchase a DC charger for the item so that it could be charged with 110V shore power or DC charge at anchor or when the engine is running.

However, the past few years I've found that Toshiba (as an example) no longer makes 12V DC chargers for their laptop computers. I just got a new MiFi hot spot from Verizon and find that it will not charge with a DC USB connection!! It will only charge with a 110V AC USB charger.

So the inverter/s that you might have to purchase are the smaller ones (75W - 300W), because some of the new electronics will NOT charge directly from a DC power source!!

A few thoughts

Jim Hardesty · October 06, 2013, 04:14:44 PM

Will the cheep ones work or is a full sine wave required to charge?
Jim

scotty · October 06, 2013, 10:49:45 PM

So, Mainsail (and other opinions, please). I'm interested in getting an inverter to run the microwave, tv (yes, I know - how tacky), the computer and, well, Christmas lights during the parade next December. So, what are the types of products that I should be looking at? I would appreciate any imput.

As an aside, thanks Mainsail for your presence on this and other forums. Your insights have been very helpful to me in lots of projects. That is also true for all of you who contribute to this website.

Thanks,

Scotty

Exodus · October 09, 2013, 04:35:41 PM

I installed the Xantrex Freedom HF 1800 inverter/charger in 2011 and had nothing but problems with the charger function. After returning it twice to West Marine for replacements I installed a Mastervolt charger and a separate Xantrex XM pro 1000 inverter. The only reason I purchased another Xantrex product was because the wiring was already in place and it was an easy install. So far the inverter works fine (3 months), but the cooling fan comes on intermittently even when the unit is turned off. Xantrex technical support is not helpful in the least.

If I could start over I would not purchase a Xantrex product.