Cradle question

[ghebbns]

I am needing to have a new cradle designed and built for my 1990 C34.  Catalina sent me the plans (along with the info in the manual) and it looks like they recommend a 4-pad cradle.  What do most of you use?  I would be tempted more towards a 6-pad cradle but is this overkill?

Thanks,

Greg

[Footloose]

FWIW-My craddle has four pads.  I believe it is the orriginal that it was shipped on.

[Jim Hardesty]

I use jack stands (it's our Yacht Club requirement), so this is an opinion only.  I have a wing keel,  for that I'm sure 4 pads are good.  For the finn keel if you store in a real windy location with the mast up may be 6 pads may be better.  I'd go with 2 thoughts.  One the weight is on the keel, the pads are only for balance.  More than snug on the pads is bad.  Second is that Catalina (Frank Butler) leans to over build.  If there were problems ,complaints, about the cradle I think they would have been fixed.
Jim

[Fred Koehlmann]

You would think that Catalina would know their boats and wouldn't want any liability issues, so the four pad cradle plan is probably OK.

That said, when we ordered our cradle we did ask for it to be built with six pads. My thinking was that i would wan tto wind down a pad at a time to do the painting. And as it turned out last year when I was working on the bottom to remove a through hull fitting, I did wind down one for access. Jim is right, they are there only to balance the boat on it's keel.

Marine Cradle Shop built our.

Here's a few pics of ours...

[Fred Koehlmann]

Another thing that I was justs thinking about, is that the Catalina 28 next to me also has six pads on the cradle, and while the Catalina 30 that got dropped behind me only has four pads, they also added an additional jack under the aft section just forward of the rudder. They probably didn't need to , but I have to admit that without it, it looks like it overhangs a lot. Most boats in the marina around our size do have six pads.

Now Midland does get some pretty heavy snow and wind in the winter, so maybe that has something to do with it.

[Albreen]

Our shipyard requires a cradle for winter storage, mast up or down. When I bought and moved our C34 to Vermont, the shipyard fabricated a cradle with (6) pads. It is nice to have the additional pads also when painting the bottom in the spring.

[Clay Greene]

Our cradle is four pads as is the cradle our friend has for his Mk II C34.  You might discuss with Catalina whether the shipping cradle for a C355 would work - the boats are pretty similar in terms of their dimensions except for the heavier weight of the C355, which would be to your benefit.  If I remember correctly from when I was pricing cradles last year, the Catalina shipping cradle was significantly less expensive than what I could find for an after-market new cradle. 

I do believe that the pads are intended to bear 20-30 percent of the weight and the keel takes the remainder. 

[mainesail]

I do believe that the pads are intended to bear 20-30 percent of the weight and the keel takes the remainder.  

Keel takes the weight pads are for balance.

Many yards here in the NE require that boat stands be used and they specifically disallow cradles.

Cradles allow yards to stack boats in like sardines and net them more money per sq ft but the base width is narrower on a  cradle when compared to properly installed boat stands. Cradles are also not easily adjustable when the ground settles beneath them due to frost & freeze / thaw cycles. This can cause issues too. Smart yards generally choose boat stands over cradles despite losing some money because of the "sardine effect" losses....

You could not pay me to do mast up on a shipping type cradle. I know lots do it, but I would be the last....

Properly installed boat stands are safer in terms of "tip over" protection due to the sheer width at the base and the more numerous balance points along the hull to more evenly distribute wind loads..

I have owned two boats that came with cradles. They were cut up and disposed of and replaced with boat stands.....

A properly, PROPERLY being the key word, supported boat with quality boat stands like the Brownell's, will handle winds better, can be adjusted as the ground moves, and it does, and can be positioned so there is considerably more support to prevent blow overs. Most shipping cradles have only four pads and are at the max width designed for OTR trailer delivery.

Most reputable boat yards, that actually know what they are doing, are using 7 or more boat stands on boats to 30 feet and 9 stands for boats to 40 feet. At a minimum a C-34 should have 3 per side & one v-top at the bow.

Part of the problem is lack of yard knowledge and improper stand positioning, lack of capitol expenditure on more stands so each boat can be supported properly, the use of inferior knock off products that don't work as well, lack of weekly stand / cradle checks, and stands that have the chains in the wrong location.

Many yards today have gone to "yard trailers" not travel lifts to position boats. Travel lifts cost money when storing boats because they are too wide and use up valuable yard real estate. Yard trailers allows them to pack the boats in tighter. Tighter boats means more storage income $$$$.

Boats can be packed far tighter using cradles than stands because the cradles do not stick beyond the beam and are usually well inside the beam. Good yards recognize that proper boat stands are safer despite not being able to pack the boats in as tightly.

Yards actually give up potential income using stands. Here in Maine I only know of a handful of yards that allow cradles. There is only one yard that uses them exclusively but they are not OTR road cradles and are wider. They only however allow mast down storage. They were designed to pack the boats 3" from each other due to real estate issues.

Many yards also stipulate cradles because cradles are hard to move. If you have boat stands you chuck them in a pick up and move boat yards. With a cradle it requires a trailer and often getting a lift to load it. Yards know storage customers are less likely to walk when they have a $1800.00 cradle that also needs moving.

If your yard uses anything less than 7 stands on a C-34 they are doing the customer a disservice. For "mast up" you'd ideally want 9....

I'll take this 14'-18'+ wide stance over a shipping cradle any day of the week, heck I have done so twice.....

Just my .02...

[Momentum M]

Guys my 5 cents.......4 pads might be OK, 6 even better and if I had it my way 8 would be the Best...why?  I find that the stern really reach out unsuported (don't forget that this is where the motor is).  At least I would ask the price difference between 6 and 8.   Since I own mine (2005) if always wanted to get some beams added to lenghten the cradle.  Some boater do install 2  extra tripods to support the stern but with frost it's never doing a good job (always loose or to tight).

Mind you that I had 6 people for lunch in the cockpit while on the cradle...but it may me nervous!!!

I would be willing to sell mine so that I would get an 8 pad one.

Another point....if you have a chance to measure the lenght of the vertical posts on a similar boat so that they are the proper one for the shape of your boat.  This way you could order exactly what you need for a proper fit.  Mine (ordered from the dealer at the same time as the boat) was not fitted properly....the 2 middle one were way to long...long enough to push the skin in. I had them and the braces cut the following summer, and the 2 front one were to small ...the screw pins were extended to the max, almost falling out so I added 4 or 5 thickness of plywood.
With this corrections I'm happy but, as I said, one day I'll get an 8 pad one.

[Ron Hill]

Greg : The shipping cradles made for Catalina 34s are a 4 pad cradle.  If you look in your owners manual about page 5.2 (for a 1988 - 1990 might be slightly different) that page also shows the lifting points for a travel lift.

The reason that a factory 4 pad will suffice is that the pads are at bulkhead points - which is VERY important.  The factory told me that the weight ratio should (for a wing keel) be 75% on the keel and 25% on the hull with the majority of the weight on the nose of the wing.

As Mainsail mentioned, cradles are used in yards that do not have alot of acreage. They use a "shooting boom" fork lift and only leave a couple of feet inbetween boats!!!  They pull them out with fork lift into a fairway so they can then be lifted by a travel lift.

A few thoughts

[patrice]

Hi,
For marina to prefer using cradle because they can stack boat closer compare to stand ??
Not sure.
The marina I'm at, most boat are on stand, but they stagger the stand location, so my stand base are under my neighbor boat, and his are under my boat.
We have about 1 to 2 feet distance at toerail height.
They do use a nice hydraulic trailer.

[mainesail]

Hi,
For marina to prefer using cradle because they can stack boat closer compare to stand ??
Not sure.
The marina I'm at, most boat are on stand, but they stagger the stand location, so my stand base are under my neighbor boat, and his are under my boat.
We have about 1 to 2 feet distance at toerail height.
They do use a nice hydraulic trailer.

With cradles I have seen 4-6" between boats... 1-2 feet per boat makes another two+ boats per row depending upon how many in a row....... Just two more boats per row can be another 6k depending upon size etc....