HELP: LPG ABYC vs. NFPA Compliance for Insurance Underwriter

[Sailing Steve]

Hello all:

This is a new one for me...  After 10 years of annual renewals of our insurance on our 1990 C34, our underwriter is now asking if our propane system is NFPA certified, and if not, they want it inspected to ensure it is compliant.  I understand that the Catalina LPG system meets ABYC LPG requirements, and I have described our factory system to them, but at this time they are insistent on it being NFPA compliant.

Is anyone aware if Catalina's LPG systems are also NFPA compliant, or any other insight/comments?

Thanks,
Steve

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Hi Steve,
NFPA is the National Fire Protection Association and I don't know how they interact with the boating industry but I see they do have guidelines on propane.
Their phone number is 800-344-355
I would call them and explain your situation to them to see what is necessary for you to do.
I don't recall any conversations in our group but maybe someone else will chime in if they have knowledge on this.
Let us know so we will all know and good luck

Mike

[mainesail]

The ABYC standards far exceed anything the NFPA has because NFPA is a land based standard. The closest I know of that the NFPA comes to dealing with marine use is for land based LPG marine transfer facilities or LPG terminals.

ABYC standards are for boats and are also drawn from for the CFR standards for USCG compliance on inspected vessels 33 CFR 183 & 46 CFR 184.240 to be specific..

LPG is covered under a number of ABYC standards and the standards also draw from UL, ANSI, USCG, CFR, ASTM, ASME, DOT etc. to form a proper marine LPG safety standard.

ABYC A-1 Marine Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG) Systems
ABYC A-3, Galley Stoves
ABYC A-26, LPG and CNG Fueled Appliances
ABYC H-27, Seacocks, Thru-Hull Connections and Drain Plugs
ABYC T-5, Safety Signs and Labels

Sounds like a pretty clueless marine underwriter... I would write back and ask which specific NFPA standard are they looking for NFPA compliance on. NFPA 58 for example does not even address recreational pleasure craft and I have never seen NFPA "certify" anything. So ask them which standard they expect compliance on. Read that standard and then write back and tell them your boat EXCEEDS it....

[Stu Jackson]

1.   So ask them which standard they expect compliance on.

2.   Read that standard and then write back and tell them your boat EXCEEDS it....

Great information.

ITWMB, I'd

1.  Not bother

2.  Go directly to this advice.  Just write them and say ABYC exceeds NFPA and you ARE in compliance.

Good luck.

[Sailing Steve]

Thanks for the input everyone.

Just for the experience, here is where we are at, at the moment.  I spoke to the Underwriter and I shared the information that was posted in response to my original forum message, plus other research, but I was unable to sway them - They state it's specifically written in the insurance company's requirements to insure a boat.  I was told that they have received surveys in the past citing that a boat was NFPA compliant, but they were unable to provide me the portion of the NFPA that was applicable to boats, or the qualification of the "professional" that I needed to inspect the set-up; Just, "...someone who is experienced in installing boat LPG systems..."

To help me better understand, they advised that they would have a Surveyor that they deal with call me, which he did.  He agreed that NFPA doesn't apply to boats, and the ABYC is the more appropriate reference.  He says recommendations within the NFPA are sound, and apparently the RV manufacturers use the NFPA as their LPG installation guide.

He advised me that he'll call the Underwriter back and try to explain it to them.  In the interim he suggested I take photos of the set-up as they may be needed to satisfy the situation.  He stated if it was the normal LPG factory set-up, there should be no concerns with the system's design.

I'll post the final outcome once it's known, but wanted to thank everyone for the replies.

[Noah]

Who is your insurer? Might consider a change.  I use BoatUS and they have been good and inexpensive for me.

[Ted Pounds]

I'll second that recommendation of BoatUS.  They insured me for the 12 years I owned "Molly Rose" and they were great to deal with.  And very reasonable - $350/yr on the Great Lakes.   

[Sailing Steve]

UPDATE:

The insurance company Underwriter as a result of speaking with the Surveyor, has declared my LPG system "NFPA Certified"...  I suspect a better terminology would have perhaps been NFPA compliant, meaning the spirit of the NFPA recommendations for a LPG system in general are met.  Anyway, it's a non-issue now, and if becomes an issue in the future, I will take the many suggestions to find another insurance company.  I suspect it was the result of someone who doesn't understand what they are actually asking for.

Thanks to everyone for their input.