Question on Rocna anchor

[mel low]

Does anyone have the latest info on the issue with Rocna anchors bending/being made with inferior material?  I had hoped to purchase one, but wanted to make sure I get a well-built one.

[yonar]

There are phone number on attached pdf file. I called Canada Metals. Anchors still will be manufactured in China. I have been told anchors will meet all required specifications. 

[mainesail]

Does anyone have the latest info on the issue with Rocna anchors bending/being made with inferior material?  I had hoped to purchase one, but wanted to make sure I get a well-built one.

Get a Manson Supreme..

[Stephen Butler]

I cannot imagine sleeping at anchor with a hook that I did not have 200% confidence in.  Even with both our Lewmar and Danford deployed, we still sleep lightly.

[Albreen]

I second mainesail's advice. I bought a 25# Manson Supreme two seasons ago before hearing about the Rocna issues but after following many of the comments here on the forum. My choice was based on its Lloyd's certification and the dual operation shank in what seemed to be a very similar anchor to the Rocna. At the annual warehouse Defender sale, the sales guy told me to be sure to let go the rode or risk being yanked off the boat when the anchor set - he wasn't kidding! 

[Stu Jackson]

...the sales guy told me to be sure to let go the rode or risk being yanked off the boat when the anchor set - he wasn't kidding! 

That's true of Rocna, too.  You may notice that I have [slightly] modified my signature to include "NZ" before Rocna to avoid being flamed about promoting or using a Rocna anchor.  We bought ours before they started making them in China with significantly reduced materials and results.

As I've often noted in earlier anchoring topics, we have had the same result just noted: when setting the new generation of anchors will pull you off your deck compared to anything else I have tried or used in over 30 years of active boating and regular anchoring.

This is NOT a start of another [yawn...] "What's the Best Anchor" topic.  You have what you have, and if you like it stay with what you have.  "Your boat, your choice."   

Rocna made a huge mistake.  Like many mistakes, it wasn't so much the original error, but rather the coverup that followed.  "When will they ever learn..."

If you are in the market for a new generation anchor, I agree with Maine Sail.

His tests of the new generation anchors and comparisons with the older ones are included in the "Anchoring 101" in the sticky "101 Topics" thread.

[waterdog]

I don't like to wade into religous debates, but cannot help myself. Suppose Stu that your anchor was a CN Rocna and not NZ.   Would you trade it for a CQR or a Bruce?  A Manson?

[Stu Jackson]

Good question, Steve.

The answer is I would get rid of the China Rocna in a heartbeat.  I understand they have a kind of trade-in offer, but haven't researched it in detail.

I would replace it with a Manson Supreme.

I wouldn't touch a CQR with a cinderblock (it's comparative usefulness).  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.msg19651.html#msg19651

I had (and still have) a Bruce and though it was much better than its alternatives in the 1990s.  Now, not so much.

Danforths are good for stern anchors in one-way sets.

I enjoy being pulled off the bow of my boat when the anchor sets - as immediately as it always does.

And just to close the loop, I SET my anchor with my engine as Maine Sail wrote about in the Anchoring 101 topic:

Last summer on a friends boat he left me at the helm while he went to drop his CQR. I backed down, like I always do, gradually increasing to 80% throttle and the anchor dragged!

Here's how the conversation went "Geez that's never happened before","Really? Lets try it again",.

On the second attempt it had an initial bite (starting to burry) but when I applied power it broke free. "Your giving it to much throttle and ripping it out of the bottom", "it's an anchor!", "let me try", "ok".

So I now go up to let the anchor down & he puts the boat in reverse gets it moving and then puts it in neutral and we get an initial bite. "There see it's set", "No it's just starting to dig in it now needs to be set", "It's always held me before", "Have you ever experienced a 30 knot blow on the hook?", "No" "Well a 30 knot blow on your boat is the equivalent of roughly 900 pounds of pull on the anchor did you know that?", "No", "Did you know that the motor on this boat can barely re-produce 350 pounds of pull wide open?" "No", "Well let's let it set your way and in a couple of hours we'll simulate 20 knots of wind with the motor and see and happens", "You're on". You can probably guess what happened. Because we never properly set the anchor it dragged! We did get it to set that day using a 10:1 scope then shortening to 5:1. My friend could not beleive that the CQR could hold his boat using 80% throttle and was totally surprised by it! Scary I know.... From my experience I find a CQR likes a minimum of a 7:1 to set but it sometimes prefers more..

He now understands that an anchor should hold your boat at wide open in reverse without moving. This is a guy who has been sailing for 25 years and admittedly dragged "perhaps 20 times but never with my CQR"! Once is to much! It's imperative the anchor gets "set" properly. Yes the CQR sets better in soft bottoms than in sand but not all boaters are lucky enough to always drop the hook in a soft bottom. So if you're in a hard bottom make sure to get it set. The CQR will set well but it may take more than one attempt. Don't ever be fooled by the "initial bite". With a CQR this is a situation where the anchor is laying on it's side with the tip just starting to dig in. Like the picture at the beginning of Sail Magazines article. If you stop there on any sort of wind or current shift the anchor will twist out. A CQR needs to be vertical and buried to the shank or it's not properly set. If it's properly buried it can sometimes survive a 180 shift without "breaking free". I suggest some of you begin diving on your anchors in a shallow spot to see what's going on down there I think you'd be surprised...

[mainesail]

I don't like to wade into religous debates, but cannot help myself. Suppose Stu that your anchor was a CN Rocna and not NZ.   Would you trade it for a CQR or a Bruce?  A Manson?

I am fairly certain Stu's anchor is Canadian.... IIRC he bought it after I did and mine was out of the first batch of Canadian built anchors. The Canadian and NZ built Rocna's were built to Peter Smiths original specs.

I'll take a stab at the questions though..  

A) I'd take even a Chinese Rocna over ANY CQR (I own two genuine CQR's er. door stops)

B) I'd take a genuine Bruce over a Chinese Rocna.

C) Buying today I'd take a Manson Supreme over a Rocna hands down

D) I would gladly take a Manson Supreme over my Canadian built Rocna as I hate "advertising" for such an unscrupulous company. I actually hide it in my anchor locker when not in use.....

E) I'd take a Manson Supreme over a genuine Bruce (course I already own both)

[Ralph Masters]

All,
I am by no means what you'd call an expert, however after doing the research and looking at all the options I fully intend on replacing my anchor with a Manson Supreme.  I have and use the Danforth knock off that came with the boat when I purchased it.  It holds great here in San Diego's thick rich mud bottom.  I have used Lewmar Claw anchors on my fishing boats and while diving.  And yes in the thick mud on the bottom of the bay it will dig in and bury it's self pretty good.  But out in the kelp beds and rock bottom it, along with the danforth, just skips along until it finds a crack to grab onto.  Would I go to sleep like that?  NO.  (But I am very sure the best anchors on the market in those conditions would be no better).  As to all the talk of an anchor system with a breaking strenght of 10 - 12 thousand pounds, I am sure you would rip a cleat off the deck at that load.  1/4 or 5/16 inch chain and 1/2 or 5/8 inch rope is more then enough, 5/8 is my pick because it is easier to get a hand hold on to pull in, I too am the anchor windlas. 

Ralph

[Stu Jackson]

Interesting and good observations, Ralph.  The "answers" to rode sizing are also in the "101" Topics list:  html#http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.msg30400msg30400

Maine Sail's list is a very good one.

As observed in many anchoring posts, the cost of a good anchor and rode system is a very small percentage of the total value of your boat.  Why scimp there?  Windlass or not (like many we're "not-ers"  ) I like to sleep soundly all night and all day, for that matter.   

[mel low]

Thanks everyone for your tips. Last question would you go for the 25 or 35? I plan on using 100 of 5/16 chain and 300 feet of 5/8 line. Have to be prepared for deep anchorages up the Inside Passage and Alaska. I have a manual windless.   

[waterdog]

Stu / Mainesail

Thanks for excellent answers.  My first anchor choice was a poor one because at the time I think the general consensus on this forum was a 15 kg claw was maybe the best choice.   I would have made a different choice if there were more strong opinions posted based on experience of the newer designs.  So as the Rocna troubles come to light, its good to get these thoughts out there for others to think about.  The point is go get a manson, don't think that we should go back to CQRs.  i guess I need to quietly change my signature, but I do still love my 20 kg CDN Rocna.

Mel

Your rope chain combo sounds perfect.  Why stop at 35?   (i am the wrong guy to ask about anchor size.)

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks everyone for your tips. Last question would you go for the 25 or 35? I plan on using 100 of 5/16 chain and 300 feet of 5/8 line. Have to be prepared for deep anchorages up the Inside Passage and Alaska. I have a manual windless.  

Mel, I suggest that you read the anchor system sizing table link I provided in the post right before yours.  That's kinda why I keep providing links.  

Your boat, your choice.

[Hawk]

I did all my research in 2010 and purchased the Rocna 15 - 33# anchor which I have used up the coast past Desolation Sound quite happily, even sterned tied in 80 feet with less scope than I wished (no choice up there often). But it is Chinese made. Whether it is inferior or not I intend on taking up West Marine's offer to exchange it for a Manson.

Canada Metal Pacific here in Vancouver bought Rocna and November's issue of Practical Sailor states that despite the controversy they are producing the shanks using the Q620 steel which is the lesser grade than used in the original design. CMP is saying the Q620 is consistent with its current claims of strength and holding power.

While I am pretty sure my Rocna would be fine for my purposes, "pretty sure" might keep me up some nights. So I'm going to trade for the Manson and become "Supremely" sure. 
Hawk