Head Odors 101 & Fresh Water to Head from the Sink in the Head FLIX

[Peggie Hall]

Any advice as to where to put a new holding tank vent and what type of vent to use? 

We need to talk about YOUR installation to decide the best place to put a new vent....but I can give you a "cookie cutter" answer about the vent thru-hull:  All "vent thru-hulls" are created equal to serve equally well on gas tanks, diesel tanks and water tanks.  Unfortunately a "vent" thru-hull is the WRONG kind to use for a holding tank vent, but builders use 'em anyway 'cuz it's cheaper to use the same one on all tank vents than it is to do it right.

What you need is a "bulkhead" or "mushroom" thru-hull (note no mention of the word "vent").

Send me an email to discuss the best place on YOUR tank to put a fitting for the other end of the vent line.

[Stu Jackson]

Looks like I'm gonna install that "T" now.

So, how about this:

Change the dual connection "head intake and shower sump" and simply SWITCH the shower sump out and the sink out?  It's just like a "T" and on my boat it's a straight into a 90 degree elbow.

Couldn't be simpler.

HERE'S HOW SIMPLE IT CAN BE

I did this today.  Simply swap the head sink outlet with the shower sump outlet on the thru hulls under the head sink.  [Years ago I bought a "T" and fittings.  Don't need 'em.]

The REALLY interesting part is that once I redid the hoses and connected the sink out to the head, when I opened the seacock, EVEN WITH THE HEAD SINK NOT STOPPERED UP, the head pump pulled the seawater through.

The ONLY downside is that now we have to open all three valves.  In the past, I used to leave the (formerly) separate head sink thru hull valve closed unless we were on the boat for an overnight or longer.  Big deal, great improvement, really simple.  Since we shower on board, we use the shower sump regularly.

Doing this, and only using freshwater for ONLY the LAST flush of the day, plus using Odorlos (NOT through the sink, only through the head), should make the smells disappear.

Only necessary for us saltwater sailors.

Please tilt your heads 90 degrees (to the left), sorry I forgot to reorient the flix.

The only downside is the rotten hose connector at the bottom of the sink:  it's NOT a barbed connection, just a straight plastic tube.  Maybe one of those great places to use 5200!!!

PS (Jan. 2016)  After these pictures were taken, I double clamped all the sink drain hoses.

[Peggie Hall]

A good job, Stu!  And the photos look good, even 90 degrees askew!    But don't you dare even THINK of gluing that sink drain fitting with 5200 or anything else!    Hose "barbs" don't have to be barbed...for instance, the SeaLand fittings are all smooth. Just double clamp it, with screws 180 degrees apart, same as you should do with all the others.

A couple of observations, though...noting the difference in color between your new piece of hose and the old, you might consider replacing all of it.  And when you do, make sure that hose--which is fresh water hose, not sanitation hose--is rated for below waterline connection. Most fresh water hose isnt. It didn't matter when your head intake line was teed into the sump...but now that you'll have any open seacock, it does.  However, the good news is, this one place you can get away with the cheapest sanitation hose--Shields or Trident #148.

[Stu Jackson]

Peggie,

The 5200 was a joke.  Those who know me understand that one of my mantras (pick one, any one!) is: "The ONLY place that 5200 belongs on a boat is the hull to deck joint.  I think they shouldn't sell it to unsuspecting boaters."

Once my knuckles recover I'll tackle the rest of the hoses and double clamps when I install my new Raritan PHII!!!  It's not doing much sitting in the garage, is it?

[scotty]

Very interesting!  Thanks everyone.  This is similar to a series of letters to Latitude 38 (a San Francisco mag).  They suggest regular treatments with white vinegar, and periodic flushes with salad oil.  Peggy, what do you think of this?

[Peggie Hall]

I never ceased to be amused by how creative people can be in creating more work for themselves in their efforts to create less. :)

I think weekly cupfuls of distilled while vinegar--ONLY distilled white vinegar, never cider or any other kind...and any more than TWO cupfuls is a waste of good vinegar--in sea water toilets is a great idea.  And although there's nothing wrong with flushing veggie or mineral oil down the toilet every couple of weeks, there's a much better way that only requires about 10 minutes once a year instead of a never-ending job:

Every new manual toilet pump leaves the factory slathered in thick teflon grease that lasts at least a year, sometime two years if the toilet is only lightly used. And it only takes about 10 minutes to replace it every annually  as part of spring recommissioning. Remove the top of the pump (or if the toilet is a PH II, remove it from the base) and put a HEALTHY squirt of grease into it. Replace the top --or put the pump back onto the base...pump a couple of times to spread the grease all over the inside of the pump...you're done till the same time next year.  Don't worry about using too much...any excess will be forced out with the first flush.

[Ron Hill]

Guys, Susan and D. Gill : Let me interject that I find the factory plumbing (under the head sink) to be very satisfactory.

On most of the MK I C34s there are 3 thru hulls under the head sink.  Two are 1/2 " (engine raw water and a head intake + shower drain) and one is 1" (sink drain).  I wrote that both the galley and head sinks could be changed to a 1" hose (rather than the 3/4" factory installed hose - you have to change to a 1" nipple) to get better/faster drainage.

The sink drain tail pipe is fine the way it is, so shouldn't need any caulk of any kind.  Because, The drain  connection is the tail piece going inside the drain hose. The tail pipe/drain hose connection is above the the water line and has no pressure involved.  Therefore a barb isn't really necessary and a hose clamp should suffice.

I like to put the head on "wet bowl", shut the head shower thru hull and turn on the shower drain as I pour water in the shower drain.  The fresh water flushes the shower drain hoses and empties into the head bowl -- this leaves all of the hoses, shower & head intake with fresh water in them.  Then I flip the head lever to dry bowel and flush the fresh water in the bowel into the holding tank.  I use that for the last flush of the trip and also use it to winterize the head (with antifreeze) for layup.

Many of us have an extra hose that goes to the bilge.  It can be either connected to the shower sump pump or engine raw water intake and act as an additional bilge pump in cae of an flooding emergency.

Stu, has a nice idea.  I'm just presenting that you might want to leave the factory plumbing in place.  
A few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

Might want to re-read posts #14 & 15 above in this thread.  Peggie makes some very important points about doing that, which is why I switched.

[Peggie Hall]

Ummmmm...Ron...I think you're talking about the toilet BOWL.   At least I HOPE you are! 

(I tried...I really did...but some things are just too much fun to ignore!    )

[Ron Hill]

Peggy : I have to agree that a BOWL, is a BOWEL, is a BOWL - is no longer is true!
 
That spell check did it to me again.  Twas a "got/ya"!    

All you have to do is get fresh water into the bowl and flip the lever to "Dry Bowl", then empty bowl to have the sweet smell again.  If you do it thru the shower drain, you also have sweet water in the shower and head intake hoses.  Then the first flush with salt water doesn't have that nasty dark smelly water coming into the bowl for the first flush.  
No change in plumbing is necessary!!  A thought.  

[Stu Jackson]

Ah, the joys of getting back to the boat WEEKLY.  First time I've done that since last August.

REPORT:

It works!

No more odors.

Gotta love the simplicity of changing two hoses!!!

[Stu Jackson]

There's also this:

Head Hoses

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5738.0.html

And in response to Ron's idea of filling the bowl, not a good idea!  Here's why:

Head Pumps 101  Why just pouring water into the bowl is NOT a good idea http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5865.msg40604.html#msg40604