Burying the rail

[SteveLyle]

I recall reading a post a while back where it was claimed that it was 'impossible' to bury the rail of a C34.

I'm not sure if this meets the definition of 'bury', but we were out last Saturday on Lake Ontario (generally light conditions) and it was blowing pretty well.  I'm thinking that it's just about time to reef, when a gust comes up.  We went from 30 degrees of heel to 45 or so (actually, I wasn't looking at the gage at the time, there were other things to see!) and the port rail went under.  And the deck went under.  And of course the boat rounded up.

We immediately luffed the genny and reefed it down from a 150 down to a 135 or so (not easy physically - Harken says to not use a winch on the furling line, but I may just ignore them next time) and the boat flattened out and the excitement level declined.

A couple of questions:
1) My furler (Harken 1.5) rotates easily with no load.  It took all that two of us could do to haul in the reefing line.  Is there some trick that we're missing?  The sail was totally luffing, but we were just short of close hauled and the boat was still moving briskly, I'm guessing 20knots aws. Next time go on a run and then reef?  

2) Is 'burying the rail' a mementary thing, or an extended thing?

[Stu Jackson]

Steve

It is a momentary thing, as you noted, since the boat, when over canvassed, does head up.  That's what's so great about it.  Now you know what "bury" means!

20 kts of wind with a 150?  Wow.  "Just when you think it's time to reef..."  30 degrees of heel slows the boat way down.

I believe the reason that manufacturers of roller furling gear recommend to not use a winch is that you can't find out if there's something jammed when you use the winch.  If so, one could cause major damage.  It's like if the mainsail doesn't go up easily, if you use the winch you could be overlooking something like a jammed reefing line on the sail (or "Whoops, I left the sail tie on," like I did last week) and do some damage to the sail.

As far as falling off all the way, or heading further up, perhaps others can help.  Seems to me you could go halfway to a beam or broad reach and make it happen rather than all the way to running.   We have a ProFurl which says: go ahead and use your winch if you have to.

Now you know why Ron Hill calls the inclometer the Fun Meter!

[c34member]

Ain't nuthing impossible in this infinate universe.  It's probably not wise and certainly not the most efficient tactic but it can be exilirating.  We lay her well down on occasion, especially when we're too lazy to reef.  Our prior boat was a Pearson 27 and she sailed well on her ear, but then it was a narrow boat.  The only time I have broached our 34 was with full main and 135% in 25 knot winds with gusts.  In one good puff the rudder lost its grip and she rounded up just as a good design should.

If your headsail was luffing you should have been able to roll the drum easily, though a flapping sail (with flailing sheets) still has a lot of strength, possibly enough to bind the drum up.  I have the Schaefer 2100 and have never resorted to a winch for furling.

We've made some pretty long runs with D's rail down near the foam.  On days when the wind is strong but the waves haven't had a chance to build it is the way to go.  It's good for the soul to feel the strength of the boat through the wheel.  We call it "charging."

[beang]

The 34's relatively wide beam (LOA to Beam Ratio of 2.94) and high freeboard design pretty much eliminates the problem of buried lee rails that were prevalent in boat designs of the 60s and 70s.  And we who sail in colder waters are thankful for that.  I tried to bury the rail on Freya during her test sail across the Slot, but had no such luck.  I did do it one time on a race.  We were trimmed in for a reach, flying our 130 genoa when we took a gust at least 10kts over the sustained winds.  I needed to hold my course to the finish line, and counter steered the weather helm.  My high water mark was when water was just about to spill into the cockpit.  I was way over powered, rudder pretty much stalled out and I had bled off a good portion of my speed.  The upshot was I probably would have kept my speed if I headed up in the gust.  I've also heard of people burying rails it while spinnaker reaching.  The good news is that the C34's  ballast to displacement ratio of .42 means that the design places more emphasis on gravity controlled stability rather than form stability.  Once the pressure is released, the boat is going pop right back up.  

The more common problem for us is water collecting along the leeward toe rail and along the cockpit coaming on the windward deck.  The later has a bad habit of draining into the cockpit (and onto crew!) whenever we go over some big chop.  Those of you who have made the "bash" across San Pablo Bay know what I mean.

As others have mentioned, winching in on the furling line may damage the nylon ball bearings or torque the gear out of alignment, causing a jam.  The pressure against even a luffing 150 is going to difficult to handle by pulling on the furling line alone.  To counter this, we mounted a Harken turning block with cam cleat to our pulpit stanchion using their rail mounting kit.  The furling line is passed through the block and then forward.  This halves the force needed to pull in on the line as well as dampens the "surges" in the line.  The cam cleat eliminates tying and untying the furling line and it even enables you to "take in a little" during a tack.  There will be a certain amount of pressure on the block with a jib partially furled in, but the stanchion is through bolted to the deck and should be up to the job.  We have had no problems using it these past three years on Freya.

[Steve Lyle]

Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions.

We are using the Harken furling line lead kit, including the turning block which we have mounted at the base of the stern pulpit.  I mounted a horn cleat on the outer vertical surface of the cockpit coaming, just aft of the jib sheet winch (as far as we could reach through the access port under the coaming).  Works pretty well.

BTW #1 - a turning block doesn't provide any mechanical advantage, it just redirects the force.  I've read a couple of posts that say it gives you a 2:1 advantage.  Maybe it does if you THINK it does, but alas, it really doesn't.  Actually there's a bit of friction loss at the block, so you really lose some advantage (1 lb pull on the line is < 1 lb on the other side of the block.

BTW #2 - the turning block in the Harken kit is a ratchet block.  What this means is that there's 'no' resistance to the line turning one direction through the block, but significant resistance in the other direction.  Supposedly the resistance factor is 10:1 - i.e., a 1 lb pull on the line will counter a 10 lb force on the other side of the block.  The ratchet can be switched off using a slide bar on the side of the block.  

Here's the really important part.  If you feed the furler line through the block the wrong way, you've just made it 10 times more difficult to furl your headsail.  

Theoretically speaking, of course, I can't imagine anyone doing that (except Murphy, maybe), and if they did, they probably wouldn't admit to it.  At least I wouldn't.  :-)

But I will tell you that my headsail furls much easier now.

[pklein]

One more comment............

Have you checked to see if your backstay is tight enough.  If it isn't, you can get a sag in your headstay which will then cause the furler to have to work around a bowed headstay instead of a round rod.  Try fighting that in a heavy wind.  

I learned the hard way and now have a nice tight backstay adjustment.

Phill Klein
Andiamo #977
Montrose Harbor - Chicago