Battery Problem?

[Gary Brockman]

When I came back to the boat yesterday after being out of town for two weeks, I was surprised to find out that my Linklite was blank and that my house bank was completely drained. After hooking up the shore power and turning on the charger, I found the problem.

It has rained quite a bit over the last two weeks in Southern California and when that happens, some water enters the boat and gathers in the bilge. It seems that the bronze check valve in my bilge pump line became stuck in the closed position and that the 1.5 inches of water in the bilge caused the bilge pump to constantly run without removing any water from the bilge until my batteries were drained. I am replacing the check valve today.

My question is about the status of my house bank (four t-105's 2 years old). Are they ruined?

Gary

[Stu Jackson]

Gary, we need a bit more information.  What was the voltage when you got back to the boat before you started charging?

Calder discusses "bring dead batteries back to life" on page 47 of the 2nd edition of his Boatowners Manual: "Is there life after death?"  Basic suggestion is to equalize the batteries.  Some have reported that Trojan doesn't recommend equalizing their batteries.  I'd check with Trojan, and if you don't have Calder's book, check in a local chandlery and read Chapter 2, "Maintaining and Troubleshooting a Battery-Powered Electrical System."

We also don't know if your charger has the equalization feature.  What charger do you have?

Soapbox: While it's good that you don't leave your boat plugged in while you're not there, this is also yet another reason to not use a check valve in the bilge output line.  Don't know why you're replacing it rather than removing it.  I know the story about a little water in the bilge and the backflow when the bilge pump stops, but I've been living with it for 13 years and don't find it to be an issue.  If this hasn't convinced you about the folly of having a check valve there, I don't know what will.  What could you have had in your bilge that blocked the check valve?

[mainesail]

Try equalizing your bank after completing a slow charge to full.

As for the check valve in a bilge pump discharge it is simply the dumbest idea since the invention of the square wheel..

[Ron Hill]

Gary : There have been MANY posts and references to - Don't have a check valve in the bilge pump line.  A thought

[Ed Shankle]

I've listened to you guys over the years regarding not using a check valve, bought into the rationale you gave and have not installed one. However, when it rains for a few days and I don't get to the boat for a week or more, my batteries take a beating. I've sat there and watched the pump continuously cycle on and off, pumping out and backflowing back in.
Short of turning off the power to the bilge pump, is there something else you do, design wise, that I've missed? A high loop in the outflow hose? A particular type of float valve that isn't so sensitive?
This is one of those issues that continues to bug me, so since it was brought up again, figured I'd weigh in.

thanks,
Ed

[Craig Illman]

raise the float switch ?

[jfssail]

Gary, I would try this, as I have done. Install a separate Rule 500gph automatic bilge pump that senses liquid every 2 minutes, shuts off or pumps it out. I have one connected to my GP23 windlass battery with the Rule Three Way lighted panel with fuse, along with a separate, 1/2 " Tygon hose to a separate new Marelon thru-hull in the stern. Put a high loop in the hose just before the thru-hull, and back-flow and other problems are eliminated.
This pump will draw down a GP24 battery less than 0.1volts for a one week period. My total cost has been less than $100, you have a drier bilge ans is activated before your main pump is activated.My system has worked flawless for the past four years, except the original pump had to be replaced after 3 years.
Regarding your dead wet cells. Put them on very low amperage charge, 5 amps untill fully recharged, then equalize them and you will do all you can do to bring them back to life.
Back in 2004 I installed four new US Battery golf cart batteries and ran them to 5+ volts  each the first week I had them, closed the charger circuit breaker with the frig on for one week. Took them back to the dealer, he slowly recharged them for a week and these batteries will start their 8th season this summer.  No sign of any capacity loss yet.
Going to buy a Victron BMV600 battery monitor this spring to get a more accurate indication of battery capacity reduction.I still can go 2 1/2 days on the hook with the batteries only dropping to 40 % capacity with the frig on max setting.

Jack F Stewart
1993 C36 #1233 "Windancer"
Port Clinton, OH

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Jack,
You have some great ideas. The only problem I have with that type of bilge pump that senses every few minutes is that if you sleep aboard a lot, you can hear a slight noise each time it cycles.
My experience with this was once when I chartered a catamaran that had this type of bilge pump, I could hear the 2 pumps(one in each hull)alternating back and forth all night long. Maybe things have changed since then, it was a few years ago.
Also, if you have a high loop in the hose back by the transom, wouldn't all the water from there flow back to the bilge?
I think I still like the idea or raising the float switch.
Just my thoughts.

Mike

[jfssail]

Mike, You are correct in that this pump can be heard while sleeping.  With the three way switch panel, you can switch the pump off during the evening. I do this sometimes. I have thought about placing a delay switch in the circuit that reduces the number of cycles to one per hour. Have not found the switch yet.
With the loop located in the transon and using 1/2" tubing, I have not noted backflow when the pump shuts down. If there is back flow, it probably occurs after a period of rain when most of the water enters the bilge on my boat, usually during the week at the Marina   when I am not there. The high loop removes the requirement for a check valve or anti-siphon in the line.

Jack F Stewart
1993 C36 #1233 "Windancer"
Port Clinton, OH

[jfssail]

Mike,If you think backflow is a problem, locate the loop closer to the pump. I thought of doing this , but was able to place the top of the loop higher at the stern than next to the galley sink in my boat.
While researching this particular Rule automatic pump, one owner had a problem with the pump running continuously and eventually melting. He put the blame on the fuse being too big for the pump. If I recall,the pump came with a 2.5A fuse, I replaced it with a 1.0A fuse and gave had no problems when I switch the pump to manual operation when I want to pump out the bilge after giving the bilge its monthly Simple Green-Chlorox treatment. I have the cleanest bilge in town.
In regard to the sound of the pump every few minutes, I usually turn it off at the Marina at night because my wing keel sits on mud after the boat drops one foot.
While at anchor in the North Channel or the Bass Islands, the sound is re-assuring in I know the boat isn't filling with water with the main bilge pump float stuck.

Jack F Stewart
1993 C36 #1233 "Windancer"
Port Clinton, OH

[Ken Juul]

Not exactly sure of the bilge pump hose routing, but if you are going to add a loop, you will probably need more hose anyway.  I think the easiest place to put the hump is under the head sink, plenty of room up by the fuel tank.  That is probably about half way to the stern, so you would cut the flow back in half.

[Ed Shankle]

Craig,
I thought of raising the switch too, but the same problem will manifest as soon as the water reaches the float switch level. In addition, the compromise is having to manually pump out more water (the water below the switch level).

Ed

[Stu Jackson]

The general "answer" is to raise the switch.  Why?  Because it's current location is "just at the right height" that the amount being backflushed hits its sweet spot.

Think of it this way:  would your pump cycle so much if it was raised a foot?  Naw, it wouldn't come on at all.

Try a 1 inch tick piece of wood underneath it for a week and see what happens. 

[Ed Shankle]

Stu,
If you are speaking from experience, I'll take your word for it. But otherwise, it seems to me that raising the switch also means that it will shut off before emptying the bilge and the backflow will just cause it turn on again. Seems to me once the water reaches the hight of the switch, it's the same situation, whether the switch is on the "floor" of the bilge or an artificial floor an inch higher.

Ed

[Ken Heyman]

Thats true Ed, but I think Stu's point is to find that higher float switch level where your pump doesn't normally come on and consequently back flow doesn't become an issue. Obviously if your "usual" amount of bilge water (however it may get in) raises the water level to the float switch, the back-flow problem is still an issue.

Good luck,

Ken