Difficult Raising Main Halyard

[crieders]

All sheaves and hardware should be replaced with ball bearing units. I have a full batten main and replaced the batten slides with cars, each one had 4 cute little wheels. Works great now!!

[David Urscheler]

Kevin:
I'd be VERY interested in what your rigger says. I just purchased masthead sheaves from Garhauer and I've been racking my brains trying to figure out a way of replacing them without pulling the mast. Please keep us updated.

Dave

[waterdog]

Kevin:
I'd be VERY interested in what your rigger says. I just purchased masthead sheaves from Garhauer and I've been racking my brains trying to figure out a way of replacing them without pulling the mast. Please keep us updated.

Dave

The rigger would need to go up, lash a block to the mast and rig a temporary halyard, come back down, loosen off forestay and backstay, go back up on the temp halyard, disconnect forestay and backstay, pull the cap, replace the sheaves, without dropping the halyards down the mast, and reverse the process.  I wouldn't want to do it at sea

[waterdog]

All sheaves and hardware should be replaced with ball bearing units.

Why should the sheaves be ball bearing?   I experienced moderate wear on bushings in 20 years - will lead to some chatter and friction, but the maintenance interval (before friction is a problem) is probably longer than the rigging life.    Near zero chance of complete failure in this application where maintenance is a bit challenging. 

What gives you the confidence that the ball bearings will hold up as well in this application?  What is the failure mode and what are the consequences?

Maybe I'm just conservative, but I think it's worth thinking about before deciding.  Ball bearings are a clear winner in a block at deck level.   I wasn't convinced at the masthead. 

[Tom Soko]

I've been biting my tongue on this long enough.  I replaced the masthead sheaves on my C36 about 10 years ago with the mast up.  Yes, it can be done.  You need a helper on deck that you absolutely trust and knows exactly what the two of you are doing.  It also needs to be done in perfectly calm water at the dock.  Let me see if I can remember the details.  
Build a platform made of 4 boards that fit around the mast, with matching holes on the corners, with an 8-10' line on each corner.  Sturdy enough to stand on.  Bring it to the masthead with a bosun's chair, also wearing a harness with tether.  At the masthead, tie the platform around the mast, at a height comfortable for working at the masthead.  The upper shrouds are attached to the mast about a foot below the masthead with a thru-bolt.  Tie all lines around the mast, above that thru-bolt, below the masthead.  Once the platform is secure, attach your tether to the mast securely, and stand on the platform.  Now comes the fun part.  Using a messenger line, pull up a line long enough to go from the top of the mast, back to a snatch block at a stern cleat, then forward to the primaries (jib sheet?).  Attach the line to the mast above the thru-bolt and take up the slack.  Do the same with a line to a forward cleat.  With the primaries, make the lines as tight as possible.  They will be your substitute forestay and backstay.  Once they are tight, have your helper loosen the turnbuckles for the backstay and forestay.  When they are loose, you can take out the pin holding them to the masthead.  Don't drop them, but use a spare piece of line, tie it to the upper ends of the forestay and backstay, and lower the ends down a few feet.  At this point the mast should be supported by the shrouds (which you haven't touched), plus the temporary forestay and temporary backstay.  Standing on the platform, you can take all your weight off the halyard that you came up on.  Now you can take the masthead fitting off.  Be carefull not to drop the halyards.  Remove the old sheaves.  Install the new sheaves.  Reinstall the masthead.  Reinstall  the forestay and backstay.  Have  your helper tighten the turnbuckles.  Reattach your bosun's chair to the halyard.  Take off the temporary forestay and backstay.  Take off the platform.  Return to the  deck, and you are done.  I hope I haven't missed a step, and I hope you get the idea.  You've got to support the mast, and you've got to support yourself without the use of a halyard.  Definitely not to be done at sea.

[Michael Shaner]

4.  Sail lugs and track.  I am really hoping one of these two to be the culprits.  I know for certain the PO had the mast painted.  (the PO also had upgraded the turning blocks, stays and shrouds and I'm hoping the sheaves as well).  I can easily apply some dry lube to the lugs but if I need to lube the track are there some good methods to do so?

Kevin, if you manage to avoid pulling the stick, take a couple cotton balls saturated (like dripping) with Sailkote and stuff them in the track above the headboard the next couple of times you raise the main...and periodically thereafter...it'll get better every time...

[Joe Kern]

I've been biting my tongue on this long enough.  I replaced the masthead sheaves on my C36 about 10 years ago with the mast up.  Yes, it can be done.  You need a helper on deck that you absolutely trust and knows exactly what the two of you are doing.  It also needs to be done in perfectly calm water at the dock.  Let me see if I can remember the details. 
Build a platform made of 4 boards that fit around the mast, with matching holes on the corners, with an 8-10' line on each corner.  Sturdy enough to stand on.  Bring it to the masthead with a bosun's chair, also wearing a harness with tether.  At the masthead, tie the platform around the mast, at a height comfortable for working at the masthead.  The upper shrouds are attached to the mast about a foot below the masthead with a thru-bolt.  Tie all lines around the mast, above that thru-bolt, below the masthead.  Once the platform is secure, attach your tether to the mast securely, and stand on the platform.  Now comes the fun part.  Using a messenger line, pull up a line long enough to go from the top of the mast, back to a snatch block at a stern cleat, then forward to the primaries (jib sheet?).  Attach the line to the mast above the thru-bolt and take up the slack.  Do the same with a line to a forward cleat.  With the primaries, make the lines as tight as possible.  They will be your substitute forestay and backstay.  Once they are tight, have your helper loosen the turnbuckles for the backstay and forestay.  When they are loose, you can take out the pin holding them to the masthead.  Don't drop them, but use a spare piece of line, tie it to the upper ends of the forestay and backstay, and lower the ends down a few feet.  At this point the mast should be supported by the shrouds (which you haven't touched), plus the temporary forestay and temporary backstay.  Standing on the platform, you can take all your weight off the halyard that you came up on.  Now you can take the masthead fitting off.  Be carefull not to drop the halyards.  Remove the old sheaves.  Install the new sheaves.  Reinstall the masthead.  Reinstall  the forestay and backstay.  Have  your helper tighten the turnbuckles.  Reattach your bosun's chair to the halyard.  Take off the temporary forestay and backstay.  Take off the platform.  Return to the  deck, and you are done.  I hope I haven't missed a step, and I hope you get the idea.  You've got to support the mast, and you've got to support yourself without the use of a halyard.  Definitely not to be done at sea.

That is just plain impressive as boat projects go IMHO

[Michael Shaner]

That is just plain impressive as boat projects go IMHO

Yeah...tough one to beat, no doubt...hats off to that solution Tom. I suspect the rum would taste REAL good with that one behind you...

[Ken Juul]

Another option if you can get the boat docked next to land is to use a cherry picker or linesman bucket rather than building the platform.  The rest of the steps are the same.

[Kevin Henderson]

Tom.....  You Sir... are my hero.  I'm afraid that if I even attempted to do what you had done it would be a sure and certain death.  

Ron... I looked in the owners manual and would concur on the face of it that it appears the Fore and Aft Stays would have to be disconnected... It also appears that some folks have come up with some ingenious ways to "skin the cat" so to speak.

Mike.... Thank you for the reference.  I have an appointment with Casey at KC  performance rigging on Tuesday.  Casey is going to come over and perform an overall inspection, but we will focus and discuss the mast sheaves and possible solutions afterwards.

To all.... Thank you very much for all the input and insight... This forum and the association is an invaluable asset and wealth of knowledge.  I will be certain to report to everyone the results of the inspection and the verdict on solutions to improving the issue with the Main sticking.

BTW... I'm still going to WM tonight and buying up a jug of SailKote... and hoping for the best

[waterdog]

Ron... I looked in the owners manual and would concur on the face of it that it appears the shrouds would have to be disconnected... It also appears that some folks have come up with some ingenious ways to "skin the cat" so to speak.

Your shrouds would not have to be disconnected.  They are attached on tangs that are thru bolted below the masthead.   However, if your rigger does remove the box ask him to have a look down inside at the compression sleeve on that thru-bolt.    I had a compression sleeve that was 3/4" too short as though it came out of the C30 parts bin rather than c34.  My serial number is only a few away from yours so it could be a problem...

[Ted Pounds]

Steve, I think Kevin is confusing shrouds (side support) with stays (fore and aft support).   

[Tom Soko]

Michael,
Necessity is the Mother of invention.  It needed to be done, and pulling the mast was not an option at that time.

Steve,
It is hard to imagine, but there really is a huge difference between the stock sheaves and the BB sheaves from Garhauer.

[waterdog]

Tom,

I wouldn't doubt it.   I just imagine this performance curve in my mind where the stock sleeves have a lower performance initially (higher friction) and degrade at a somewhat steady rate over a long period of time.   Overlaid on that you have the ball bearing sheaves that perform better initially and at some point in the future take a sharp downturn and drop below the performance of the standard.   (More moving parts - all things fail eventually - failure mechanism is probably pretty catastrophic given the nature of the bearings - a curve with a knee).   

Now if that failure and intersection point is 20 years in the future, then it is a no brainer - use ball bearing every time.   If it is six or seven years out, then people will want to make decisions trading off performance and maintenance.   I'm not advocating bushings over bearings, just asking if there is data to suggest that ball bearing sheaves are gonna last and perform for 20 years.  I didn't know the answer when I did mine and went with new bushings (probably influenced mostly by the J-Boat captain who was hanging out in the rigging shop at the same time I was there spending his days putting new ball bearings into 5 five year old blocks while he waited for new rigging parts).

But then you've demonstrated that there is no need to pull the stick to do the sheaves, so it's probably a moot point anyway.   Go for ball bearings and performance!

[Lance Jones]

Our marina has a power lift to raise the boats out of the lake. If you talk real nicely to the operators, you can pull into the well and use the lift to get you over the mast head. Once there, do your deed and then your done. Cost.... a case or two of beer.....