fuel issues

Jeff Tancock · August 02, 2010, 09:08:04 AM

Hi All
I am having an ongoing issue with my fuel this year. I live in the Pacific NW so the boat stays in the water all year but doesn't get used in the winter. Filling the tank and using additives is standard practice for the winter hibernation. This spring I discovered water in the inspection bowl of the fuel filter. I drained it off a couple of times. Then after reading what I could in here I opened the bleed valve at the dock and ran the fuel pump for about an hour and seperated most of the rest of the water. I had very little show up as I ran the tank down. I was planning on pulling the tank out and cleaning it as I had done 5-6 years ago when I had an explosive growth of some sort in the tank, but didn't want to do it on a full tank. Things seemed fine and when I was very low I added a couple gallons (10 liters) of deisel and checked it carefully as I used it up and there was no sign of anything wrong...nice clear bowl. So I then went ahead and put in 3/4 of a tank (60 liters) thinking that I may have got off easy, but then ran into water again when motoring for a couple hours this weekend! I can't think of a water source other than the fill cap leaking when I washed down the boat. Is this possible? I checked and the cap was on tight enough that I needed the winch handle to make it budge. I checked and there is an "O" ring at the base of the threads. Should there be another washer there? Any thoughts or experience with this as an issue? Thanks in advance...

Jim Hardesty · August 02, 2010, 09:49:05 AM

Jeff,
Remember that the fuel pick up that goes to the engine is about 1" off the bottom of the fuel tank. The water will settle below that, until things get shaken up. Did you notice the reappearance of water after some rough weather? Here we have to winter on the hard, so each spring before launch I sample with a hard pipe at the tank bottom accessed at the fuel gage port. If I see anything I don't like I pump it out till it looks good.
I doubt if you got water by rain or washing. Would suspect that it was bad fuel, or at the tank bottom.
Jim

Jeff Tancock · August 02, 2010, 12:23:22 PM

Interesting about the pick up being 1" above the bottom. I thought that I remembered that it laid right on the bottom. If you don't think that the water could get in through the fill cap I feel better. I was wondering if I was missing a gasket. My fuel source is very good but maybe there is still some water left over from the spring due to condensation. It just seems strange that I could run the tank so low without any signs of water then see more after a second refueling. I guess that I will be pulling the tank when I get the fuel down a bit lower.

Mike and Joanne Stimmler · August 02, 2010, 01:00:03 PM

Jeff,
It may be worth replacing the cap just for the piece of mind. If you haven't already, be sure to add some biocide to the fuel.
Before pulling the tank, you could try disconnecting the inlet hose from the tank, lay it off to the side and run some water over the cap to see if any water comes out the disconnected end of the hose. A few ideas.

Mike

waterdog · August 02, 2010, 01:55:15 PM

Don't forget Ron's advice. Water can flow right through the cap. If in doubt, test with a bit of alcohol poured into the winch handle spot. You might be surprised to see it drip right through...

Jeff Tancock · August 02, 2010, 03:06:16 PM

I've missed the leaking cap issues! Never heard about that before. Any generic cap?

Stu Jackson · August 02, 2010, 03:55:30 PM

The only ones I've found that are straight replacements are the plastic ones from Catalina Direct. My understanding is that that's because the ones used on our older boats aren't made anymore and would require the replacement of the whole fitting.

Mike Vaccaro · August 02, 2010, 06:19:13 PM

Jeff,

Ron will chime in to back me up, but if you've still got a plastic fuel cap, replace it with a new stainless assembly. Also, fuel is cheap enough that if you suspect contamination, it's practical to pump out the existing fuel and replace it with clean disel. You can remove the line from your secondary filter to the engine (the one under the sink in the head), and rig a 1/4" ID temporary line that will allow you to use your electric fuel pump to pump the fuel from the tank into jerry cans. If your tank is older than about 7-10 years, you might also think about pulling it and cleaning it out. There's quite a bit of Tech Note savy and other info in the Wiki section. Also, there's another phenomenon that I recently encountered called "wet disel" where there is literally too much water in suspension in the fuel--that is the result of additives. Fuel chemistry is beyond my limited mental capability, and after a couple of experiences I've become a fan of adding nothing to the fuel and just making sure that it stays resonably fresh. I've had more success with that approach than I have with getting the perfect chemical cocktail mixed in the tank (and this gets harder if your fuel supplier already pretreats the fuel!).

Cheers,

Vac

Ron Hill · August 02, 2010, 06:50:06 PM

Jeff : From your post I'll almost guarantee you that you have a crack in the cap!! Make my test that Steve mentioned. Just do as Mike mentioned - get a 1 1/2" stainless cap & fill assembly and be done with the plastic fuel cap forever.

The fuel pick up tube does end about 1 inch above the bottom of the tank. However, there should be a 3/8" piece of fuel hose (about 3 inches long) attached to the end of the pick up tube. That fuel hose extensions purpose is so it lies on the bottom of the tank and sucks up fuel from the tank botton. In the end of that fuel hose is where a screen was placed to "filter" the fuel. That screen was VERY VERY fine mesh and could/would/WILL easily get clogged. That's why all C34s before "about" 1993 should pull the pick up tube and REMOVE that damn screen!!!!!!!!!! That's what the RACOR filter is for !!
A few thoughts

Jeff Tancock · August 02, 2010, 08:21:26 PM

Thanks guys.
I have pulled the tank before for a cleaning and removed a very disgusting screen. I am looking forward to a close inspection of the plastic cap when I next get to the boat. Is the stainless cap and fill assembley a Catalina item or will any do? It makes the most sense. I do add treatment though and never thought about that being an issue. When I pulled the tank last time I used the boat's fuel filter to pump out the fuel into big plastic pails. It was so clean and beautiful looking that I couldn't toss it out. I did however toss the filter.

Fou Du Large · August 03, 2010, 05:33:32 AM

I had the same problem.
The filler cap was craked down the hole where we put the winch handle.
Very difficult to see.
I repaired it and did'nt have any water after.

Jeff Tancock · August 03, 2010, 10:13:48 AM

It looks like West Marine has the same stainless steel fittings as Catalina Direct. A short term repair would be a great idea until September when I will have the time to pull the tank, clean it out and change the fitting. Any tips on the repair that you did FDL?

RV61 · August 03, 2010, 04:47:38 PM

Jeff,
Several years ago I had a water issue and it was solved after I noticed that the fuel vent fitting on the transom was upside down and so when it rained the upside down fitting acted as a funnel putting water in the tank, Turned so the the vent opening faced down. No more water in tanks since.
Rick

Ron Hill · August 03, 2010, 06:04:56 PM

Jeff and Other guys : As I recall I went to West Marine and purchased a 1 1/2" stainless fuel fill marked DIESEL. It was on the sale table and only has a diagonal slot in the cap instead of 2 holes for the key.

I went back to the boat and by myself (no internet advice or article in the Mainsheet tech notes on HOW TO) installed that fuel fill in less than 2 hours !!

I saw the first article on the cracks in the plastic fuel cap and water leaking into the fuel about 1991/92!!
I'm not too sure what you guys are waiting for??!!?? A thought