Cutless bearing and shaft removal

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

I had our boat hauled out this past Monday to have some work done.
1. bottom paint
2. replace the old signet transducers with the new raymarine transducers for the new instruments in the navpod.
3. replace the stuffing box hose along with the whole stuffing box assembly.

I have a friend who is a surveyor who did an inspection of the bottom and he found some play in the cutless bearing and recommended replacing it while the shaft was being disconnected to work on the stuffing box.

The next thing I know, the mechanic is telling me that he's going to have to drop the rudder to get the shaft out and the cutless off and all the associated extra cost. So I proceded to tell him that I knew many owners through the Catalina IA that have done this without dropping the rudder and he said that he's been doing  this for so many years and he's NEVER been able to do it. So we agreed to disagree but he did promise to at least try before dropping the rudder.

The next day I called the yard owner to express my concerns about the additional cost of dropping the rudder and also asked if he knew about a device called a strut-pro that could remove the cutless without even removing the shaft and he said that they normally use a hydraulic ram devise to basically do the same thing but the Catalina's have what he called " A THIN WALL CUTLESS", which has a tendency to crumple inside the strut when trying to remove it that way. My answer was, "what do we have to lose"? If it crumples then pull the shaft like you were going to do anyway and if you get the cutless out, then we don't have to worry about getting the shaft out.
He agreed to have the mechanic at least try all these things first before dropping the rudder.

This is one of the problems with not living near your boat. You have to put a lot of trust in the yard doing the work. Living in the Phoenix area, it's not a easy jaunt back and forth, otherwise I could keep an eye on things.

I was planning to drive back down Friday to collect our boat but I won't know until Thursday if all the work is done and the outcome.

Is anyone familiar with the term "thin wall cutless" and is there problems in this area?

I will keep you posted on the outcome.

Mike

[pablosgirl]

Hi Mike,

I too remember seeing the prop shaft removal steps somewhere on this site so I did a search and found the following that you should send your mechanic. http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Cutlass_Bearing_Replacement.  It's in the Tech Wiki.  And here is another message board post http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=4618.0.

Good Luck
Paul

[cmainprize]

Mike
I just changed my bearing (and prop, and coupling).  I was not able to get the shaft past the rudder (mk11).  As a matter of fact, it was not even close.  I was concerned about drooping the rudder until I actually got to it.  20 minutes to dig the hole and 15 to drop the rudder.  Installing the rudder took close to an hour, and that included finding someone to lift the rudder while I lined up the quadrant and inserted the retaining bolt.  I would not give the yard more then 2 hours labor for this job. 

I was not able to remove the bearing with the strut pro.  As a matter or fact I had to cut the bearing up with hacksaw and dig it out in pieces.  It moved about 1/4 inch with the strut pro and stopped.  I put a ton of force on the wrenches and it just would not go.  Weird. 

Food for thought.

[Ken Juul]

Don't forget that some of the cutlass bearings are held in place with set screws  (help Ron & Stu).  Buried under layers of paint at about the 10 o'clock position looking stern forward.  I don't think the cutlass will come out unless the screws are loosened.

[mainesail]

Mike,

The yard was being straight with you. Thin walled cutlasses crushing is quite real and many yards no longer "press" out small sailboat bearings because you can actually ruin the strut in the process. Some bearings press out easy or have a somewhat sloppy fit, while others simply crush and score the strut sometimes requiring removal and over boring to the next size bearing dia. The fit of bearing to strut is a critical fit and a score is not one that should be repaired with sand paper and files as the bearing to strut clearance is supposed to be a press fit. It does not take much strut surface removal to ruin the fit..

Dropping the rudder takes about 15-30 minutes provided the boat is already blocked high enough to get rudder shaft clearance from the hull. Use ratchet straps connected to the stern cleats and supporting the rudder and this becomes a one person job.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Where can you access the quadrant retaining bolt? Through the panel in the aft cabin or under the aft helm seat?

[Ron Hill]

Mike : Quadrant bolt access is under the aft seat (under the propane locker - plywood it's mounted on).

I've replaced the cutless bearing both ways.  Remove the shaft and strut pro pressing out the old/ and in the the new bearing.
As Ken mentioned, first make sure that your strut doesn't have set screws (about a 5% chance).  They are at 3 or maybe 9 o'clock position on the strut.  Scrape the paint on the side to locate them.
You should be able to pull out the shaft IFyour cutless is really worn.  Just make sure it's spotlessly clean and well greased.
The only problem that I had with a strut pro is when some boat yard YoYo, pressed in a cutless in a C34 and to "help" it slide in used LOCKTITE !!!! Then you'll have to pull the shaft and literaly chisel out the old bearing!!    Good Luck

[SeaFever]

Mike,

I saw the item 3 in your plan about changing the stuffing box assembly with the hose. I also recently needed to change my stuffing hose and stuffing box assembly. I decided to go for a PYI dripless instead. It was not much more expensive and now I don't have to worry about the dripping water, ever. If you are taking the shaft out it will be pretty easy to put the dripless on.

Just a suggestion. Cheers.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I should get the outcome from the yard later today. I feel a bit insecure being at their mercy and not being nearby to see what's going on.
However, they do have a good reputation and have done well by me in the past so I'm hoping that I don't have reason for concern.

As far as the PYI system, I'm going th stick with the standard stuffing box and the Gore dripless packing. I don't feel totally comfortable with the possibility of the bellows cracking with the only fix being a haul out, 'specially if your away from a nearby yard along with the burping issues some have had. I could be wrong though.

I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome.

Mike

[Roc]

I have a MkII and several years ago, I had the yard install a new SS shaft.  They removed the shaft by pressing out the cutless bearing.  They did not need to drop the rudder.  Although at that time, the bearing was fine, they needed to take it out and then install a new one in order to remove the shaft.  I don't see why that wouldn't work in your case.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Looks like they won't be done in time to pick it up this weekend so I won't be able to get back down there until next friday......We'll see what happens then.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Another delay!
Their having trouble getting the flange off the shaft.
I remember what BOAT stands for.

[SeaFever]

Mike,

I had the same issue on my Pearson 10M recently. The shaft coupling was all rusted and the yard had initially indicated that they 'may' have to cut the shaft if they are not able to take the coupling off. I cut the coupling and saved the shaft. It took 3 hrs and 4 'saw-all' blades but I got the coupling off without a scratch on the shaft.

Attaching some pictures for reference. The yard would have done the same (cutting of the coupling) in half the time it took me.

Lessons learned:

1. Don't waste time with cheapo Chinese blades. They DON'T work!
2. Make one cut right on the Key so the two parts can fall off. I had to do slide the second part out.
3. Try to make the cuts as straight down as possible. Perhaps a good way is to start the cut manually with a good hacksaw and then start with the Reciprocating saw. I had started that way but did not do the manual cuts deep enough to guide the Dewalt reciprocating saw.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

They finally did get the flange off the shaft, now we'll see if they can get the cutless out.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Well, the cutless wouldn't budge and in the process of trying to drop the rudder, they couldn't get the top of the rudder post disconnected from the emergency tiller fitting. They were thinking about unbolting the strut but then thought that they could cut off the tiller fitting and decided to check with Catalina to see if they had a new emergency tiller fitting in stock and they do so the yard says they can get it by tomorrow or Monday. This is becoming a nightmare and I hope I wake up soon.
Hopefully I'll have our boat back by next Friday, which is the soonest I'll be able to get back to San Diego.
The new word of the day is "Fuster Cluck"

More to follow

Mike