Capsize Screening Ratio - wanders to solar

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Markr, hope your overheating wasn't because of the kelp beds off Point Loma. That stuff tends to clog intakes ahd foul props and rudders.

Mike

[markr]

Thanks Waterdog - I don't understand all the stats that you have written yet - need to read that book. Is AVS (Angle of Vanishing Stability) readily bandied about in the US? I comment becasue i don't see it included there in the stats. That book definitely looks worth a read.
Mike & Joanne: I am waiting for a definitive answer from the mechanic. The fresh water coolant was burning off and there was salt water coming out of the exhaust when I started the engine - I was not driving and there may have been a period where the intake was blocked by kelp???
Apparently the heat exchanged was 40% blocked and he was going to test the thermostat.....so I will hopefully get a diagnosis.....

[Ken Juul]

Mark,
Please don't take this negatively, I think you are getting cart in front of the horse. You are discussing plans on doing blue water cruising.  The information you seek on boat stability, seaworthiness, etc is important.  But I think more important is being self sufficient.

The engine systems in the C34 may seem incredibly complex.  But they are really basic systems.  As you continue your preparations and search for the boat to handle your dreams, I suggest you attend an engine seminar or two.  You don't need to know how to overhaul it.  But knowing how to change belts, diagnose/fix overheating, clean the heat exchanger, change the oil, adjust the valves, etc will go a long way to making you comfortable on any boat by yourself. You will be amazed at the things you can do with a little knowledge and a few wrenches.

Keep the questions coming.  Watch and learn from the folks that fix your boat this time so you can be better prepared to handle it yourself next time.  I was fortunate, grew up on a farm where learning how to fix things became second nature.  If you are smart enough to figure out sail trim, then you are smart enough to do the rest.  Jump in and get your hand dirty.

Angle of vanishing stability is a very common term in the boat design field.  It does not get much discussion among lay sailors.  If you are going to study boat design you will become very familiar with the term.

[waterdog]

Thanks Waterdog - I don't understand all the stats that you have written yet - need to read that book. Is AVS (Angle of Vanishing Stability) readily bandied about in the US? I comment becasue i don't see it included there in the stats. That book definitely looks worth a read.

AVS angle of vanishing stability is still around.   It's also called the LPS or limit of positive stability.   It's the angle of heel at which there is zero righting moment (you're going over).     Leonard's discussion of all of this is really good.  

The reason you don't see it is because nobody actually tests for it other than solo southern ocean racers and hardly any of the manufacturers actually publish the calculated curve (at least not the ones that sell boats at boat shows based on the layout of the galley and the number of heads).  That's why there are a bunch of comparisons/ratios derived from published data like length, beam, displacement etc.   They are easy to get numbers for any boat though they don't necessarily yield the most meaningful stability data.     

[Albreen]

Other great references to Waterdog's recommendation is:
Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts (A Nautical quarterly book) and Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook: A Compendium for Coastal and Offshore Sailors. I'm sure many on the C34 list have other favorites too. 

[markr]

Well, thanks for all the info and responses. I just wanted to respond to Ken Juul, at great risk of becoming a pariah on this forum!
Thing is, I have to say that being new to this forum, and being new (a year now) to my Catalina 34 does not make me new to sailing. I think that this is a common misconception on this forum - new to C34, not new or inexperienced in sailing in general. Simply because I am asking for some information, does not mean that I am ignorant of, or have failed to consider, other aspects. Now, emails and posts do have a way of being miscontrued, so responses on this forum have the potential to come across wrong. I have been seeking information on basic statistics and facts on the 34. I have also been conversationally relating some recent occurrences on my boat....
Personally, I have been sailing for 26 years. I am a commercially endorsed RYA/MCA yachtmaster offshore with time as a charter captain. I am also a yacht broker (Beneteau - www.scyachts.com) - big confession LOL!
So, I am the first to admit that I far from know it all, which is why I am asking questions. I have serviced engines on a variety of boats. I have completed the RYA Approved Engineering Course. But, my engine everheated and being something beyond a normal event, I had a machanic look at it - apparently it was a thermostat problem. The Universal Diesel is not a complicated animal overall, but I don't have a spare thermostat on board......
In terms of the blue water crusining - I am just doing long term research. I have young kids and the boat is perfect for family cruising here in San Diego. I had a bit of a scare when I thought my wife was going to transfer to Florida and I was going to take the boat through the canal and across to Tampa from San Diego...which I would have happily done (and not sold her!)...but that did not happen so I have much more time to research how far I will go in equipping her.
The question is really - research on whether, at some point in the future, I would take my 34, fully equipped, round the world, or across to Australia, or back to the UK, or whether I would sell her and buy some other boat.....
Now, I will dig my foxhole and wait for the incoming....! ;-)

[chedlin]

So the ratings only mention the MkII.  How does that apply to the older original design?  My thoughts are that the closed transom is a strength to a point, but that if it were swamped the water would stay in the cockpit MUCH longer entering through lockers and the companionway.  Are there any ways to mitigate this risk?

I have my boat on an inland lake where she will stay for the foreseeable future, but I dream of taking her to the Caribbean.

[markr]

And another thing:
Waterdog, thanks for the input on AVS. I have Beth Leonards book on order and I look forward to it. I found your comments about your cruise heartening. I find the C34 to be a great boat and the use of space below is exceptional.
In the UK, the use of the term AVS is far more widespread. Most information about boats will refer to the AVS and if my memory serves me correctly I remember AVS graphs/curves being readily available.
It is useful, but of course not essential - there is a huge debate about what a blue water cruiser is/should be. Modern boats do not have the same characteristics as older, narrow, full keeled boats. I do look forward to reading Beth Leonards comparisons - and so long as the 34 is "acceptable" I would be comfortable equipping mine and sailing further afield. I take all information "under advisement" and make my own calls....
I recently purchased a book called "20 affordable sailboats" off the Lats & Atts website. It was a breath of fresh air - even though it does not include the 34. It talks about reaching back into a past era (70's - 80's) for a gem of a boat that will make offshore cruising affordable and safe. In the foreword there are also some comments that ring true for me, a Brit, and probably for many on this forum: it talks about what is affordable and safe, and warns not to confuse this with what may be bigger, better and more expensive (i.e. make your neighbor envious and go cruising in a floating condo!) - according to the author this syndrome is a North American thing, which for these older 32-38' boats would only be achieved by "coating them in gold leaf"...hahaha!
So, as long as my 34 is seaworthy, equipped and provisioned, I would be happy going cruising. I have a solar panel project in mind.....

[markr]

Chedlin: true. A walkthrough transom has a great advantage for draining water out of the cockpit - interesting if the MK1 closed transom makes the structure of the boat stronger? I have been mulling over ways to put additional or wider cockpit drains in my MK1. Although the companionway entrance is large, I have modified my hatchboards to hold them in, and thus keep water from rushing down into the interior ( a pooping not being an event I anticipate in the near future, but with an eye to future cruises!).
I bought some small plastic clam cleat thingys from west marine and put one on each side of the top part of each hatchboard. I then have bungy cord attached at each side of the companionway so that I can run it up through the cleats on the bottom, or both, of the hatchboards. The cleats grip the bungy so that I can cinch down the boards and keep them in place.
I called Catalina some time ago and asked them about the MkII being CE rated A, and there being no rating for the MK1. There are some specific things that you have to do to a MK1 to get the CE rating. You have to have a metal shield on the bulkhead next to the stove. You have to have a backing panel to the engine start panel. CE is a European thing that boats now conform to. He told me words to the effect that "they had not had to change the manufacturing procedures between the MKI and MKII in order to get the CE rating on ther MKII" - the implication being that the MK1 confoms in terms of strength/quality of build, except for the specific needs of the CE rating. Apparently I could get my boat CE rated, by inspection, so long as I have the things done to it (a previous owner did put the stove screen on, unless it was always there...?)
I think that to say any more, he would have had to get his legal department involved in case I took him at his word and headed out into the southern ocean....

[markr]

As a broker, I notice that most boats are now advertising themselves as CE Rated A for "unlimited offshore". Of course, this means that your boat is seaworthy for those conditions (i.e wind and waves as stated, can't remember the specifics...) Therefore, back to Ken Juul"s point: It does not mean that the boat is equipped or capable of crossing an ocean....mainly due to tankage/saftey gear issues.....
We sell new Beneteau fully equipped for coastal or limited offshore cruising. They are extremely well built boats and CE rated A. However, if anyone is buying the boat for extended crusing or liveboard purposes, there are naturally some improvements or additions that can be made... ranging from bimini/dodger, to watermaker, to various types of additional safety gear etc.....

[waterdog]

So, as long as my 34 is seaworthy, equipped and provisioned, I would be happy going cruising. I have a solar panel project in mind.....

Talk to me about solar panels.   I have some ideas.  And watermakers.  And sail making.  And upholstery.  And series drogues.  I had some great help from folks on this site when I did the mother of all refits.   For me it came down to three things that mattered:   rig, rudder, and ground tackle.   Everything else was a nice to have.  And I think we added all of it...

[markr]

Waterdog:
Ok, so I am on the list for a mooring to save some money on slip fees. Issue: powering the batteries with no shore power and away from the boat. Answer: solar panels! But, if I am installing solar, why not do it properly to allow me to use it while crusing/at the hook etc and not just trickle charge the batteries.
I was doing some research. I don't have any canvas on the boat, and if/when I have some spare cash (and after I get new sails...) I would prefer to get a dodger as first priority and then maybe later a bimin.
However, I was looking at a way to install solar panels beyind one of those nasty plastic holders they sell with the panels. I would really like a transom arch, but that is too expensive. I was thinking of building my own frame to mount the panels port and starboard on the puship frame, so that panels could be lifted out to the sides or left flat against the pushpit - but then I went back to my boat, remembered what she looked like, and realized that the pushpit frame does not extend far enough forward from the transom to accommodate solar panels.
I want two panels, to generate some decent power. So, I am thinking to kill two birds with one stone and have a bimini frame built (much cheaper than a really nice looking arch) and have the panels mounted port and starboard on top of the frame. I can add the canvas later....
If the panels are mounted each side, I should still be able to look up from the helm and see my sail trim....so long as when I put the canvas on I include a skylight in the bimini...
So, that is my solar panels thought process so far, and it will be stimulated into action if my names comes up for a mooring....the project is limited by available funds, and my first choice would be a transom mounted arch....

[Stu Jackson]

Here's what Steve did:  http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Solar_Power

Mark, it sounds like you're following some footsteps in your quest.  FYI, Steve did a major refit/upgrade/safety check on his boat before he left what I call Northern Washington State, eh? or Southern Alaska, eh?: Vancouver, BC.  He's now in Mexico.  He's posted almost all of his updates and recommendations here, although he has been too busy having fun to move them from the message board to the wiki, or to direct you to his earlier posts.  I'm guessing he also is not prepared to retype the answers. 

So, if you click on his name on one of his posts, you can find his earlier posts, or do an advanced search using his screen name under whatever individual subject matter you're interested in.

This topic has strayed somewhat from the original CSR into solar.  Changing subjects can be so much fun!