New Sails

[rob]

I searched the Message Board, studied the Tech Wiki, spoken to several sail lofts, and otherwise immersed myself in the arcane density of sail purchase. Prior posts as well as the input of Stu Jackson have been very helpful.

I spoke to both traditional lofts like North Direct and Kappa as well as more discount oriented folks like FX and National who all make sails specifically for Catalina 34s.  They have all been very generous with their time. Kappa and North sails are nearly $1,000 more than FX and National. For a new boat owner and weekend cruiser like myself (I think) I've decided to go with the less expensive sail. With that in mind I have the following questions.

1. FX and National are very similarly priced ($1,350+- for the main) Both make sails specifically for Catalina's. FX has a great web site and advertises on Mainsheet. Other owners speak highly of National. I spoke to both and they were both helpful and generous with their time. Does anyone have strong opinions about either? I'm leaning toward FX but have seen very little on the Message Board about them. Any input about either of these two lofts would be much appreciated.

2. Am I making the right decision going with a discount loft like National or FX? Should I fork out the extra $1,000 to purchase the Kappa 'performance' Dacron which is essentially a radial cut Dacron sail?

3. I haven't called Gary at Ullman yet - any input on those sails?

4. Lastly Dutchman VS. Lazy Jack - opinions?

Thanks very much!
Rob
PS - If anyone wants a copy of the notes I've taken from my conversations with North Direct, Kappa, National, and FX - please feel free to contact me..

[Lance Jones]

Rob,
1) I wouldn't rule out Catalina. I got my main & genoa at a price I've promised not to quote; but, it was less than $3,000 total.
2) If you're only cruising, no need going for the high tech. I would go with a loose footed main if you could as that results in a more uniform sail shape.
3) I prefer Lazy Jacks myself.

[Ken Juul]

I think the Dutchman system does a better job, especially with new sails.  However I'm not sure how often the monofiliment lines need to be replaced.  With the mast up that might be a PITA.  Another consideration is your sail cover, after the sail ties are on, the lazy jacks can be pulled forward eliminating the need for zippers in the sail cover.  Not so with Dutchman.

[Jim Hardesty]

Rob,
I had a Dutchman installed on my previous boat.  Liked it a lot.  Needed to be within 40 deg of the wind and the sail would raise or lower nicely flaked.  Didn't need to go to the mast and deploy the lazy jacks.  Seldom used sail ties or fettles (think thats what the intermediate reefing lines are called).  About every 3 years changed the monofilament from the deck.
Boom tents are a problem, the monofilament lines get in the way.  Some guys lower the topping lift tie the Dutchman off and support the end of the boom with the main halyard then put up the boom tent.

My two cents on sail lofts.

A local loft should build the sail for local conditions and help you set it up for best performance.  Skill and knowledge is what you pay extra for.

Production sails are made for general conditions and for a price.  Much like OEM sails.

Jim

[Braxton]

Rob, I have a Dutchman system that I inherited from the PO.   How do I go about changing the monofilament from the deck?

[Jack Hutteball]

Braxton,
It is easy.  The dutchman system should be attached to your topping lift, mine is.  I have not had to change a mono line yet (9 years with mast up all the time) but one of the Dutchman fittings on top chafed thru the top line on 3rd year and I had to replace that line and smooth out the fitting.  No other problems yet.
Jack

[Roger Blake]

Braxton--Jack is right...is fairly easy. I had to replace my lines after one broke (after 10yrs of service) last spring while installing the sails. Just rotate your topping lift until you can reach the lower clamp. Remove that clamp and use tape to mark the center of where the clamp, well, clamps on the topping lift. Once removed, continue to rotate the topping lift to bring the upper clamp into reach. Remove that clamp, remove the old line from the clamp, remove the old line from the disks which are installed in the sail. A note of caution, make sure you run you new line through those disks the same as the old...the sail will want to fold (flake) a certain way and you want to retain that. Tie a knot in the end of the new line, install it into the upper clamp, rotate the topping lift to raise it until you get where the tape is for the lower clamp. Repeat the process for installing the new line for the lower clamp and disks. Once installed, raise the system to the top, you'll probably have to adjust the length of the lines (extra line is stored in the bag at the foot of the sail). You can get the owners manual here: http://www.mvbinfo.com/dp_02_SF.html. I have the "B" system...but A and B/C system manuals are located on the site.

[sharkey]

I have had my Ullman sails for about a year and out 35 times so far and very pleased.  basic quality much better than my original 1991 sails (more cringles, reinforcing widgets etc.).  Ordered online (believe Catalina direct) and cost for jib and main around $3700ish.  Arrived and fit perfectly...amazing how there is less heel, weatherhelm has dissapeared and the boat sails to weather on its own.  IF you have old sails get new ones.  I waiting too long because of "cost".
Dutchman is the way to go although a bit fiddly when setting it up.  Make sure the cutouts on sail cover match the lines on the main.  If you don't have cutouts and/or no ridged vang then use the main halyard to hold up the boom.
As respects the 1000 test fishing line (or whatever it is) I had to replace from original 4 years ago - thats 15 years of pretty good use.  Instead of paying a fortune for high test fishing line I used grass trimmer nylon cord from Home Depot - was around $10 for the lot and is more robust than before.  It's profile is square instead of round but makes no difference and is a bargain.

[Ron Hill]

Rob : I made my own lazyjacks for about $20.  No holes in the mast.  Look in Projects and see how I did it.  That was 18years ago? and just remade some new ones of the same design.  A thought

[Mark Swenson]

Go over to the Catalina 36 forum and contact Chic Lasser.  Chic sails a Catalina 36 and also is a rep for Mack Sails.  I bought a new main and Genoa from him last year about this time and found the prices to be very good and the quality of the sails also to be very good.  You may also be able to find Chic's e-mail in the most recent Mainsheet in the C36 section.

[Steve Sayian]

Dutchman Users:  I had to replace the monofilament lines a couple years ago.  I went to the local marine store and bought 300' of 400 pound test fishing line for $20.00 and I have enough to do both lines several more times.  The fishing line is clearer than the OEM lines and less visible and cheaper than buying it from the OEM.

[Roland Gendreau]

Regarding National Sails, I purchased a new main and genoa from them for my C30 ; I was impressed by how well they were made and thought they were a great value.

I sold the boat 5 years ago -the the new owners are still very happy with how they perform and how well they have held up.

Roland Gendreau
Gratitude #1183

[Roger Blake]

and...I did what Steve did...went to the marine (fishing) store and got line that was UV protected that they used to tow bait with. It was clear line, so it is less visible (not that I cared about that quality). So far, so good.

[Roc]

If you read the Dutchman owner's manual, on the last page it says if you've read the manual cover to cover, you are entitled to a free set of filament lines.  At the last boatshow, I went to the Dutchman booth and told them I read the whole manual.  They gave me a set of filament lines, free.

[Steve Sayian]

Roc,

I do remember that now that you mention it, as I did RTFM.  I forgot about it when I did the lines and it was also in the summertime and there weren't any shows around.

When I go to the Boston Boat Show in Feb, I'll give that a try.

Steve