propane alarm

ed webb · October 25, 2009, 12:08:19 PM

I received a call from the marina today telling me that an alarm was going off in the boat. I am assuming that it's the propane detector. The boat has been on the hard for about 2 weeks. We removed the propane tank at that time. I had left the batteries in the boat so that I could run the bilge one last time before winterizing it.I read the article from 2006 about carbon monoxide being the culprit. I'm wondering if this could be the problem, and could be causing it.

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.
Ed

Stu Jackson · October 25, 2009, 01:16:41 PM

Ed, you read the same long topic to which so many of us had contributed. It's looooong: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4313.0.html

The conclusion was the battery charger gassing off the batteries.

Are you charging your batteries?

What's the question?

ed webb · October 26, 2009, 09:28:00 AM

I'm not clear as to what (battery charger gassing) means. We were not charging the batteries at this time. However, the alarm had sounded one other time the past season. I had stopped out to the boat in the middle of the week and the alarm was sounding. I have not smelled anything on either occasion which leads me to believe that this is a carbon monoxide issue. Any ideas on how to narrow down the cause?

Thanks
Ed

Stu Jackson · October 26, 2009, 09:49:46 AM

Ed, I reread the whole five pages of Michael's old post. The important point that we took some time to get him to understand was that he had to replicate the conditions that triggered the alarm, not simply to report that the alarm was functioning after the fact.

The same is true here for you, Ed. You say your alarm was making noise. What were the conditions? Nothing was charging? Nothing was running? What else was happening other than the sound of the alarm. We need more information from you about the conditions, because anything without that would be pure conjecture.

I have not smelled anything on either occasion which leads me to believe that this is a carbon monoxide issue. The sensors on an alarm system are a lot more sensitive than your nose.

I'm not clear as to what (battery charger gassing) means. It means that the charger was on and when it is the acid inside the battery bubbles. Try the Ample Power Primer on the tech tab at www.amplepower.com or any other reputable battery system and battery charging book or online. If that was already clear to you, then not an issue. In Michael's case, it was the gassing that made the chemicals that set off his alarm.

I've noted many times that the internet is very poor for helping with smells, sounds and wiring without diagrams. I should add alarms to that.

From your description, there was nothing on your boat that would indicate an alarm would or should be triggered, unlike Michael's case where it was pretty apparent (after we questioned him) that the charger was the culprit. Given that, how can we possibly help you with the information you've given us? For instance: Were your dorades open; were you providing adequate ventilation down below (since there have been some reports included in Michael's discussion, that Mark IIs may have less ventilation without the dorades)?

You could provide us with more detail as to exactly what sensor you have. Name, company, age, age of batteries (both your big ones and the ones inside your alarm unit), whether the alarm is tied to your boat batteries or are standalone -- that kinda important information. Sometimes alarms go on (off???) with low batteries. Perhaps someone here is aware of a batch of bad sensors made by that company... Just grasping at straws here, Ed, without anymore information than you've given us, which is, essentially: "My boat alarm went on, what was it?"

Roc · October 27, 2009, 04:27:23 AM

Sometimes the sensors need to have the dust blown out of them (or vacuumed). I notice that my fire alarm chirps and I need to clean it out. I believe the instructions say to vacuum the unit occasionally (at least the fire alarm instructions I've read in the past)

ed webb · October 27, 2009, 11:14:42 AM

Stu,
Nothing was running the second time that the alarm sounded. I had turned the battery selector to the off once the boat was out of the water. I don't know whatmodel of charger is installed but I know that the manufacturer of the charger is Professional Mariner. I don't know who the manufacturer of the sensor is. I won't be going back to theboat for a few weeks but when I do I will get the models and Mfgs. name.

It appears that I have some other problems. I brought the batteries home and put them on a charger. One of the batteries has been in service for two seasons, one is new this year, and the third came with the boat and is at least 4 years old. The oldest of the batteries charged up fine. Neither one of the old batteries is taking a charge. I am thinking that I have something wired incorrectly. I have not checked to see if either of the new batteries has acid in them but I will be tonight.

Mike and Joanne Stimmler · October 27, 2009, 11:56:38 AM

Ed,
Were the batteries on the boat when the alarm was activated and if so, were any of them connected together as a single bank.
Batteries of different ages should not be used together as a single bank because the difference in charge or characteristics could be drawing the other one down and also gassing the weaker one as if being charged by a charger.
Just a thought.

ed webb · October 27, 2009, 06:39:43 PM

mike,
Well this just gives me another opportunity to show my ignorance. Were the batteries connected as a single bank? Not sure what that means. They were wired together.

ed webb · October 28, 2009, 08:30:43 AM

Well, I pulled the covers off of the batteries that wouldn't take a charge. Both batteries had a black residue stuck to the caps. I'm guessing that this would indicate that the batteries had been over charged/ over heated. I know that the accepted belief is that the problem is with the battery charger. Is it possible that it is in the way that I have wired the batteries? Just a thought.

My wife cringes every time that I turn on a light switch. This is due in large part to my lack of knowledge regarding electrical systems. It also holds true for plumbing projects.

Speaking of plumbing projects. While reading through the many posts regarding this electrical issue, I came across Roger Blake's posting (plugged in or not) about installing a check valve on the bilge line. My question is, where in the line did you install this. Was it at or near the pump? did you install one on each pump? Shouldn't this standard equipment?

I Would also like more info about converting the fridge to DC power (keep in mind my vast lack of knowledge with electricity). I understand the reasoning behind disconnecting the power. However, the boat is our cottage and we really don't want to empty to fridge each weekend.

I look forward to your comments.

Ed

ed webb · October 28, 2009, 08:40:28 AM

another question about the fridge. I know, I know this isn't the right forum to ask this but I was here anyway. We don't anchor out over night very often. We did for the first time this past summer. All night long the fridge would cycle for about 15 minutes, shut down 20 and kick back on again. Is this normal? It didn't help with getting a good nights sleep. I was nervous enough not being tied to a dock. I'm getting over that

Ed

Stu Jackson · October 28, 2009, 08:46:36 AM

Yes, Ed, it is normal. The fridge compressor should work about half the time.

Ken Juul · October 28, 2009, 09:57:30 AM

Ed,
You have made the first step....admitting.
Now time to move on to your recovery.

Read Calder's book on Boats and Electricity over the winter. Once you have a basic understanding, find a dock mate that understands and ask for some help.

We have all been in your shoes, as strange a black magic it may seem, the concepts are actually pretty simple once you get past the new to you terms and acronyms.

As Mike said earlier, batteries of different ages hate to be mixed. You can start planning your budget now to replace all of them and start the season with a fresh bank(s).

Stu Jackson · October 28, 2009, 11:08:56 AM

Given Ed's ProMariner Flyback charger, he should include replacement of the charger in his budget, too.

Mike and Joanne Stimmler · October 28, 2009, 12:46:59 PM

Ed,
How long have you had your boat? What kind of a history have you had so far (last Year) on the batteries? Are all 3 batteries tied together? How is your 1-2-B battery switch set up. Have you ever had a problem with the batteries using excessive water? This would help us help you.
I'm betting that the alarm was caused by the gassing of the different aged batteries tied together.
Before I replaced my batteries,I was adding water almost every 2 weeks and thought they were being overcharged, and maybe they were at some point by the previous owner, but since I got the new batteries, I haven't had to add any at all and it's been almost a year. I will still be replacing the charger at some point since it is an older type.
A few more things to think about.

Mike

Roger Blake · October 30, 2009, 02:36:27 PM

Ed--To answer your question (Speaking of plumbing projects. While reading through the many posts regarding this electrical issue, I came across Roger Blake's posting (plugged in or not) about installing a check valve on the bilge line. My question is, where in the line did you install this. Was it at or near the pump? did you install one on each pump? Shouldn't this standard equipment?), I only have 1 bilge pump, and I installed the check valve about 9 inches up the discharge line. The check valve is in the bilge for easy access. There are those here which don't like using a check valve, a search on that term will get you lots of hits and information. If you do decide to put one in, make sure you check it on a regular basis to ensure it is functioning correctly.