another head smell topic

[Bobg]

I know there is extensive information in the achieves, but I get conflicting answers, the bottom line, when I pump my head the smell is so great coming out of the vent, people want to jump overboard.  I am talking about just walking by the head and giving it one pump on the handle and the boat reeks. I know the smell is coming out of the vent hole in the stanchion because my GOOD buddy put his nose there when I pumped to check it. (we did get him back on board).

I have the elbow in the vent line to eliminate sharp bends, I use KO as directed.  I see where using a carbon filter in the vent line works for some but I have also read that it actually hurts the system, preventing fresh air to help the good bugs.   I have read that a 1" line max 3' is best for the vent line, but our boat configuration won't let us upgrade without a lot of changes.

I never noticed this problem the first year and half I owned the boat, now it seems to be getting worse, I am good after a pump out and a good rinse for a couple days, last fall I really cleaned it good, even removed the intake hose on the tank and rinsed it through that. I leave the boat for a week and the problem starts up again. I hate to drop the hook around other boats.

Does anyone have the solution?  anyone ever put another vent line in? I have thought about putting 2 vent lines in, one with the carbon filter for flushing the head, and one without the filter, only a shut off valve, kept open to provide the good bugs with air and close it when you flush the head  Thanks guys. I have ordered peggys book.

[Stu Jackson]

Bob, I recommend that you post your question on the co.com Forum for Peggie Hall, the Head Mistress, here:  http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31 

You may also want to read some of the posts already there on that Forum.  If you scroll down to the bottom of that page in the link above, you can view all of the posts on that Forum by changing the period from last week to "beginning" -- like everything ever discussed by Peggie in response to head odors and other smelly issues! 

Somewhere she describes how to clean the inside of the holding tank, using ice cubes!  Sounded pretty good to me.  You can a search on that Forum using "ice cubes" and see hat comes up.

Peggie's literally "written the book" on boat odors.  She believes that filters are wrong, and will also note that the 90 degree elbow is wrong and that a larger vent line, hole in the tank, vent hose and a hole is needed to properly vent the tank.  Our experience is that the smell originates from the sea water in the head intake hoses, and after the first few pumps it disappears.  I agree that our C34 OEM arrangement is very poor for a good vent, especially that stanchion base which is a real restriction.

The solution, as I've figured it, is to route a new larger vent, with a simple mushroom through hull, and install it either on the deck or high on the hull with a clam shell cover.  I haven't done it yet, because the few "wiffs" we get are something we can live with.  Oh, we do have a "bit of air" here almost all the time...

[Bobg]

Thank you stu, I have researched that site today, lots of good stuff.  And Peggys book is coming.  I probably will go with a temporary homemade carbon filter, "a quick afternoon fix." Then investigate vent changing and rerouting, I am in fresh water all the time.  At this point (guest coming on board in a couple days)  I would rather not get the smell, than treat the aerobic bugs with fresh air at this particular time.

[tonywright]

Bob

You might want to start by replacing your vent hose and take out the elbow connector (the elbow will cut the airflow and create a location for dirt to get trapped and grow bacteria).  I replaced my vent hose with thick white sanitation hose (got rid of the standard reinforced PVC). Make sure that you don't have any sags in the line. You want any overflow to go straight back into the tank.

Make sure that when you flush out the tank, you don't overfill and leave dirty water in the vent hose.  This could lead very quickly to the problems you describe. I  usually flush with fresh water down the pump-out two or three times at each pump-out, and avoid overfilling it when I do. After the first pump-out, pump water from the head through to the tank as well, to remove any crud from that line.


Tony

[Bill Asbury]

The PO of my boat replumbed the head to use only fresh water from the onboard water tank via the shower head at the sink in the head.  This eminates the critters coming into the head from the bay that can cause an odor in the holding tank when they give up the ghost.  We have absolutely no offensive odor on our boat---with the exception of my personal exhalations from above and below...:-)

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

We generally go to our boat every 2 weeks so the first time we pump the head, it is really nasty, but we feel its becaose of the critters in the intake line, sitting there for two weeks. After the first few pumps of getting nasty air, ours generally clears up.

After you manually pump out the holding tank and rinse it a few times, being careful not to overfill it because I have also found that you can clog the vent that way, try using a product called Odorlos in your holding tank. It's worked great for us.

Try the simple stuff first before you start changing hoses. It may not be as bad as you think.

Mike

[Roc]

Bob,
First, get rid of the vent filter.  You don't need it.  I added another large vent into the inspection port, led the hose forward into the cubby storage on the port side, into the v-berth cabinet area and out of the hull right below the rub rail.  Per Peggy's suggestion, the hose needs to run with a gentle slope (not straight up) and you want it in an area that will not siphon water when heeling.  Also, flushing with fresh water keeps the toilet smelling clean.  I plumbed the head intake hose into the sink drain hose with a 'T' connection.  To flush, open the faucet to fill some water into the sink and then pump the head.  Since the seacock to the sink drain is closed, the head with draw the water out of the sink.  To pump with sea water, open the seacock and put the sink drain strainer in. Now the water will be drawn through the seacock.  This set up will give you a spare seacock for other applications.  I also found that Odorloss works well for me.  I use CP to clean the toilet.

[Ron Hill]

Mike : If you shut off the head intake/shower thru hull, then turn the head to "wet" bowl, and pour some fresh water into the shower drain - while the shower pump is on, you'll see fresh water coming into the  head bowl. 
Shut all off and when you flush 2 weeks later, there won't be stinky raw water coming into the bowl.  If you want to clean out that line, just use a cap full of bleach in the fresh water you pour into the shower drain.  A thought

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Great idea Ron! Thanks

[Jack Hutteball]

Ron,

Your post confuses me.  I did not think there is any connection between the shower drain and ANY hoses on the toilet.  My shower drain pumps out thru its own thru hull.  Is there some connection between the shower drain and the toilet intake line?  Am I missing something here?
Jack

[Ron Hill]

Jack : You have to look at the production year of the questioner and the production year of the answerer.

I would have never given that same answer to an owner with a MKII like yours.  My answer will only work for a MKI !!

That's why production year, model engine, type keel and standard or tall rig are essential elements when you ask a question!!!  There are a verity of differant C34s put out by the factory.  A thought

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Ron,
I didn't know that was a standard set up either. You had me totally impressed thinking you remembered one of my previous posts saying that when I purchased my boat, that the shower drain was not connected and that I had decided to tee it into the head intake.

I tried your suggestion this past weekend and I will let you know the next time I go down how it worked.
This arrangement also allows you to flush out the head intake if it were to get clogged.
I went a step further than you suggested. First I ran fresh water through the shower drain with the thru hull open, then closed it and ran more water through to the head. I'll let you know.

Mike

[David Sanner]

I had some smell from the old vent line, replaced and that was
just about all of it.

I did have some nasty odors from critters in the head's sea water
line and now have the same setup that Roc mentioned:

Tee the sink drain at the thru-hull, route to head: when open the sink
drains to the sea and the head uses sea water, when closed
the sink drains / is pumped through the head.  (fresh water
in the holding tank helps with odors as well).  I almost always
keep the thru-hull closed up so I have one less place to
spring a leak as well.

The second vent sounds like a great idea... I wonder if you could
get some of that advantage by pumping a bit of extra air into
the tank after each use when you're cruising?

[Roc]

David,
Not sure if 'pumping' would introduce an appreciable amount of air (i.e. Oxygen) into the tank.  The basis of stopping odors is to have an atmosphere that lets aerobic bacteria  thrive (the type that does not produce odors).  It's the anaerobic bacteria that causes odors (thrives in an atmosphere without oxygen).  That's why you need a large vent that pushes as much oxygen into the tank as possible.  My picture shows the added line that I routed forward from the inspection port.  In the background, you can see the original vent line that I kept, but I changed out the clear PVC hose.  It's now the white hose more suited for waste systems.  By having both vents, it allows more of a cross ventilation.

[Ed Shankle]

There was a similar discussion about ventilation, last year I think. I noted that I experimented by using the dingy foot pump to pump air into the holding tank via the pump out hose. Did that for a few weeks, twice a week. Results were good. Not that I'm advocating that as a regular practice, but it at least proved to me that more oxygen in the tank can solve the problem. So the next challenge is to find a way to aerate the tank regularly. Of course you still need to follow some of the other recommendations to address the water going into the head.

Ed