Outfitting for Cruise to Mexico

[waterdog]

This is a very very interesting discussion. (For me anyway.)   If we go away cruising for a year and decide to return home to school and soccer and work (yikes), fitting out the C34 is probably the best decision.  I come home with a solid boat and no brokers or governments are enriched in the process.  $20K in upgrades and it will simply be the cost of enjoying our time away (and great additions to a boat we would likely keep long term for coastal cruising here in BC.)   

From an economic standpoint, the boat as it sits is probably at its peak from an "investment" standpoint.   Great condition, pretty well equipped, shows well & would survey great.  I could sell it right now in BC for between $65k and $75k - you pick the currency. 

The challenge is if we go south and decide, the whole cruising thing is really not a bad lifestyle alternative and we should do it for several years before returning Foster to high school.   We would likely want a bigger boat with more ocean crossing / payload carrying capacity before exploring remote parts of the Pacific.   If I try and sell the same boat in California or Mexico it's probably worth 20K less and I would realize no return on at least $10k of additional improvements - a $30K hit.   (That's a year+ of cruising kitty.)

On the other hand selling the house, buying the big boat and then deciding that the lifestyle doesn't fit well will carry a much bigger financial penalty.   

The C34 upgrade looks more attractive as I think this through.  Plus its a boat I already know and Stu is going to do the rudder and standing rigging for me.

The feedback is great.  I've got new insight into the list.   I'll do that in another post... 


 

[waterdog]

The stratified list:

Things that must be done or will cause me to lose sleep:

- Lifelines ( a few cracks in plastic and rust streaks - they get replaced this year regardless)
- Rudder
- Standing rigging

Safety gear that is simply a necessity for extending cruising and is not fixed to the boat

- Liferaft
- EPIRB
- jacklines, tethers, harnesses, strobes etc.
- charts

Items falling off the list

- new shaft (any reason why the old one would fail?)
- new propellor (I don't know that I need a spare - if I'm replacing it, I'm already in a yard - what's wrong with having UPS deliver one?)
- new batteries ( I have to address generation issue - not convinced that I need more capacity or the extra weight/space)

Essential extended cruising spares (none of this stuff is a bad investment)

- alternator
- water pump
- injectors
- exhaust elbow????
- extra rations --fuel filters, oil filters, impellers, belts, hoses
- one bit standing rigging as long and heavy as the longest and heaviest - terminals
- refrigerant or bits for Adler Barber????
- what else here guys???

Projects that are just good to do anyway:

- propane locker
- icebox insulation
- storage overhaul

Some nice enhancements that would add some value:

- bimini (must have for Mexico)
- new sails (California might be the place to add these - I'm sure Stu knows a loft)
- inverter

Some temptations that might be better suited to a Valiant 40:

- diesel generator (great choice, but expensive and would never recover value - the Honda might be the way to go on a C34)
- windvane ( if I decide to make the right turn for the Marquesas, I'll put one on, otherwise the below deck autopilot is probably a better choice for a C34)

Some things I don't know about:

- additional tankage in the V-Berth ( anybody cruised Mexico?   Can a familiy of 3 live on 75 gallons?)
- watermaker (seems like an expensive unreliable power sucking bit of kit)
- radar (I'm thinking I don't need this in Mexico - would I want it in the fog off the Golden Gate Bridge, yes - can I avoid fog combined with heavy traffic????)  I think an AIS receiver just went on my no-brainer list of acquistions - I already have the chart plotter - screw radar that's a year's supply of margueritas...

[Jon Schneider]

Okay, enough with equipment (well, never enough really).... do you have plans to prepare yourself and your family?  Have you taken a safety at sea course?  Do you know celestial navigation?  Have a sextant?  Also, read the "Handbook to Offshore Cruising" along with the Pardey's books and others.  Have you figured out an exercise and education routine for yourself and the kids (your wife sounds smart enough)?  Training of the captain and the crew are way more important that stuff you load the boat with.

[waterdog]

Ah yes.  They say that the most important piece of safety gear is your brain.   No.  Never taken a course.  OK maybe Power Squadron all those years ago - general safety, coastal piloting.   Never deployed a drogue in anger, but looking forward to trailing warps with all the vodka bottles attached as we go gale sailing off the Oregon coast.  Read lots.  Once I sailed into this wall of blackness with lightning all around us.   The wind clocked 720 degrees in 15 minutes and I couldn't see the compass reading on the mast even with the goggles.   Funny how they just clipped jumper cables on the shrouds and the nine other crew disappeared below decks leaving me at the helm.   I guess I was the disposable Canadian.  2 inches of rain in my cup in a few minutes.   Such is racing - they call it offshore, but it's on a lake - how does that work?   Surfed at 14 knots with a spinnaker.   I steer by stars.

Actually offshore isn't the problem.  It's the damn rocks that will kill you.   And training here is good.   We transit passes here that flood at 9 knots.  (There's one or two that go at 18 - whirlpools that eat 40 foot boats).  We go at slack of course.      There are bits of rock that stick up that will hole your boat and kill you.   So I guess we've kind of learned a healthy respect, patience and piloting.   You'll find a fire extinguisher in every cabin and the cockpit.   Soft wooden plugs.   My wife could guide you to every seacock in the boat with her eyes closed.  We keep a log.  Our Lifesling has been out of its pouch.  We've rigged the block and tackle.  Our man overboard pole has been in the ocean.   We have actually sailed into our slip with a dead engine rather than call for a tow.   Last year we put over 1100 miles on BlackDragon - and those are just the miles with the plotter turned on - probably closer to 1500.    My wife used to love boating.   Now she loves the boat too.

Celestial navigation?   That's thing with the stars and the funny binoculars and the complicated math where you try to figure out where you are and then pull out your GPS right?   We plan to learn that as soon as we can do our Morse code at 30 words per minute.

We did have the two kids.   Down to one now.   I suggested last week that Foster could walk on the dock with his life jacket off and Tracey suggested that we need to be careful because we don't have any spares.   So yes the training and preparation is important. 

No we haven't figured it all out yet.  The Handbook of Offshore Cruising is regular nightime reading.  I'd prefer a skeg.   And an encapsulated keel.  And another 75 gallons for water.  And another 50 for diesel.  And I wouldn't mind if it was a cutter.   But I don't think people with canoe sterns are really happy with their aft cabins.   And I'm pretty sure people with walk through transoms never stop looking over their shoulders in really big following seas.      I wanted to call the boat "Escape Velocity".   But the boys thought it was too wierd.   The old boat was SnapDragon.  This one had black canvas.    So the boys wanted "BlackDragon".   Everything is a compromise.   And it's never exactly what you would want.   But the question is are you doing everything you can with what you've got?

Will you be able to look back and say, "I have absolutely no regrets."?   I've been tested recently.   My answer so far is "yes".    I want to keep it that way. 

[Ken Heyman]

---a bit more serious with this post.  My wife and i cruise Lake Michigan. Generally our longest sail out of site of land would be crossing to the Michigan side of  the Lake which puts us in open water out of site of land for the better part of a day. Safety considerations include:

1.) Bringing the Walker Bay with us on its leash

2.) Having a Winslow inflatable raft in the cockpit locker at the ready

3.) having practiced not only man overboard procedures with cushions but actually hauling my wife into the boat using a lifesling and a block and tackle(old traveler). It is very very difficult and accordingly a person overboard is perhaps one of the most frightening scenarios to consider.
I have cancelled my Life Insurance to eliminate any "perverse incentives"

Preventative measures include always resisting the temptation to go forward without being attached, no matter how calm the seas are.

At any rate, it sounds wonderful and as our Catalina Fleet 21 speaker who had just done the "Great Loop" in a Sea Ray said last night "Do these things when you can and do them while you are physically able"

Good luck with the planning and the voyage.

Ken

[Kyle Ewing]

To me experience is the best way to mitigate cruising risk.  Imagine having the situations Steve described (storm, man overboard, etc) happening 72 hours into a passage where your only two crew are sick and your self-steering device is broken.  You should have practiced the skills needed so you're not trying to figure it out under adverse circumstances.

Here is a link to the Seamanship and Safety checklist used for Chicago/Mackinac race competitors.  All of it can be applied to cruising (http://www.chicagoyachtclub.org/racetomackinac/pdf/cyc_seamanship_skills_checklist.pdf).  If you have the skills on the list you're in good shape for extended cruising.  The safety regulations (http://www.chicagoyachtclub.org/racetomackinac/pdf/2008_msr_monohull.pdf) are a good starting point for equipping the boat and includes a discussion on life rafts.  The race is essentially a 333 mile passage through cold water.

[waterdog]

Ah yes the Mac.   These are the crazy people who had me drive into the storm rather than start the engine and go as fast as possible in the other direction.  All they cared about was boat speed.  Very strong motivation to drink rum at the Pink Pony...

[Bruce & Sandi L]

"The big problem with this plan is what to with the boat in tropical storm season."
We have summered our boat for several years in the village of San Carlos near Guaymas, inside the Sea of Cortez on the mainland side. There are two large marinas with huge dry storage facilities. www.marinasancarlos.com will connect you with one of them that just enlarged theirs and should have plenty of room. This is north of the zone that most insurance companys won't cover during the season. It is about 250 miles to go to the US for parts and supplies if needed, with absolutely superb buss service on luxury busses on a 4 lane hwy. You wouldn't want to sail right past this beautiful body of water on the way south anyway. It is well worth the little side trip. Stop by and visit us on "EZDUZIT" in Puerto Escondido on your way up the sea. That is now our home port. It has a nice hotel and restrauant within walking distance of the dingy dock where Stu and Jon can buy you a nice dinner just for coming up with the idea. There, that takes care of the first year.
Bruce

[Stu Jackson]

I sent this to Steve:

Steve,

And can you believe there actually were a couple of things we didn't get to.  :)

1.  Mexican storm season:  my understanding is that folks simply move south over to the mainland Z town, Banderas Bay, to leave the Sea of Cortez during the storm season.  It also is no fun doing the Cortez during winter anyway.  Latitude 38 has a good First Timer's Guide to Mexico online.

2.  Anchors - here's a link to Rodd Collin's page.  He used to have a C36.  Browse around, he's got some very good info.  He also did a great deal of input on a recent anchor discussion on our Message Board.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising

See replies #31 and 33 on page 3 of this MB:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.0.html

3.  Energy Budget: don't know if you remember this one, I can send you the XLS spreadsheet once I get back home, but the #s work almost for anybody, and you're in those ranges:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3976.0.html

4.  The bargain basement alternator, which we bought, can be found here:

http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-electrical-system-upgrade-2.html

5.  Rudder:  see  http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-rudder-modification.htm

6.  Coming back:  I also have an article I scanned into my computer from a four year old Cruising World about avoiding the dreaded Baja Bash coming back, by employing the same techniques Benson used going north.  Hopping from Harbor to harbor in Mexico heading north is very doable.  I'll send it to you when I get home.

Happy Planning

[Michael]

Dear Steve:

Cripes, your thread has touched a romantic nerve and set a thousand arm chairs are a'sail.

If Stu or the other first dozen volunteers strike out, or you need a third mate, I'm tempted to volunteer, pack my sextant, Bur Ord parachute, and wife's nerve for the voyage, at least part way to SF. (Victoria is part-way from Vancouver, isn't it?  This lest my wife read this post.)

Regardless, the parachute is yours for the asking.  We all know it is essential.  After reading Pardey a few years ago and therefore realizing that surviving my roaring twenties, thirties, and forties without one in the back of the MG was mere blind good fortune, I stumbled into a surplus military supplies store in Oceanside (you know the place, we have all been there, where the owner weighs a few hundred pounds of retired muscle and talks fondly of killing a bushmaster snake with that same type of machete on sale in the corner while on duty sleeping in a hammock strung between two Central American trees in a hurricane) where there was a fantastic supply of these cargo 'chutes, everyone stamped just as Pardy said they would be: "Bur Ord", for Bureau of Ordnance, and not even used by those tuna boats out of San Clemente (or wherever).  Hardly a voyage on Hali goes by where we don't deploy the canopy and ride down the face of 40-foot waves like a baby sleeping in the arms of a giant.  Unaccountably, the lines of the 'chute are as clean as at the day it was born to a virgin seamstress in distressed circumstances somewhere near Raleigh, North Carolina, and immediately impressed into duty aboard the nearest C130.

All the planning is wonderful, and I don't suggest you curtail it in the least (I will come to the rudder in a minute), but I remember, when planning an Atlantic crossing on a cat, writing to my friend, the owner of the cat, who (with the cat) was holed up in Majorca, having sailed, somewhat thoughtless, into that island while asleep (like the guy in the used military goods store apparently but not as quick to avoid near-death).  Anyway, my email inquiry was, "Do you have a liferaft?"  To which my friend (you can tell he was the executive type) replied, "Cats don't sink."  He turned out to be quite right.  After several of us had to leave the boat in Gran Canaria, he sailed on with a skeleton crew, running out of food and drink almost immediately and diverting to the Cape Verde Islands; running out of food and drink again, but being reprovisioned on Christmas day by a Greek freighter several days out of St. Lucia.  Plan, plan, plan...but go.

The rudder.  Do our boats ever settle down in heavy seas?  I think you can probably pack enough of everything except sleep to get you to SF.  This is by way of argument for a third crew member at least.  It is the tiredness that gets you.  With three, preferrably four, you can set up reasonable watches.

Cripes, I envy you the voyage.  Have fun.

[waterdog]

I may be in trouble.   

You see I do like to plan.  What I'm doing here is putting the flesh on the bones of an alternative.   Before I bought my boat I had a first year maintainance and upgrade budget down to line item detail.   I think I spent within a few hundred dollars of my baseline budget last year. (Actually 3 scenarios - the baseline, the "everything I could possibly want" and the minimal "what must be done to make it seaworthy".)   The thing is I actually had 3 of these budgets.  Two of them were for boats I decided not to buy.

So I must confess.   I also have the "Sell BlackDragon, Buy and Refit an Old Fast Passage 39" kind of budget and the "Sell BlackDragon, buy a Newer Beneteau 393"  type budget.   

So if I end up not going to Mexico in a C34, it's not necessarily a failure of the plan, just the excercise of a different option in a larger planning framework. 

Don't tell Stu or Jon.   

(BTW this plan is currently favoured over other alternatives - it's way cheaper and more flexible).

[Jon Schneider]

Don't tell Stu or Jon.   

Too late for me, but I don't think Stu ever reads this board, so you should be safe ;)

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Steve,
Have you considered doing the "Baja Ha Ha" which happens around Halloween. If you haven't heard of it, it's a very casual cruisers race from San Diego to Cabo San Lucas. Lots of info in the latitude 38 website. I haven't done it yet but I'd like to if you need crew. I have done the "Baja Bash" which is the reverse course but not a organized race and you're basically motoring into the wind the whole time. Not much fun, I was crewing on a delivery of a 35 foot catamaran to California. 

Mike

[Joe Kern]

Don't tell Stu or Jon.   

Too late for me, but I don't think Stu ever reads this board, so you should be safe ;)

LOL

[waterdog]

I had a great telephone consultation with Stu.  I haven't got Stu's bill yet, but however much it turns out to be, it will be worth it. 

A few decisions.  The sails are good.   Why replace the sails?   Do go for the A-sail.

The anchor needs to be a Rocna, a big one.  Maybe a Manson Supreme if I'm feeling cheap.  The 15 kg claw can be the number 2 now.   I suppose I ought to drag the 10 kg Bruce and the old Danforth out and see if I can lose some weight. 

Ooops.  I've just been interrupted by Tracey.  She thinks I come to the C34 list to get pointers from all of you on my "sales pitch".   Actually the right sales pitch is critical to the whole thing.  I've just explained to her that none of you are helping with my pitch and that you all love her and have volunteered to crew with me down to Mexico so that she can go down on an airplane and just climb aboard in Mexico.  "Really?" she says.  (Thanks for the help with the pitch). 

The inverter made the must have list.   A battery monitor has been added to the list.   New alternator is a go, but not the expensive Balmar.

Big sun shade and watermaker are on the list.   Oh and I added a big medical kit.

Mike, I have looked at doing the Baja Haha.   I read all the stuff many months ago and I think it would be a great way to go down to Mexico.   In fact I really hadn't even thought of Mexico as a cruising destination until I read through the material.   We love Mexico as a country and we love sailing so why not combine the two?

Bruce, we will definitely drop by if we go by Puerto Escondido.  Tracey wants to know if you want to do a boat swap.   You can come up and cruise Desolation Sound in late summer/early fall and we'll take your boat for a couple of weeks in the heart of winter.   (I told her this wouldn't work so well because you would be living on your boat then.)

Anyway timing is the problem.   The damn world keeps spinning around the sun on its tilted axis and creates these weather windows.    By late October we would need to be in Southern Cal.  And our plan is to be on the boat in the Gulf Islands, Desolation, the Broughtons for the month of August.  (Tracey hasn't bought into the whole Mexico plan yet, but she definitely wants to go away for a month in August.)   So to make Mexico this season, I would need to fit a refit into September, pack up and rent out an entire house, make boat schooling arrangements, sell off just about everything we have, and put the rest in storage all inside a month.  Then a race down the coast.  I think I might be working on my divorce in October.   

So I think a departure in April makes more sense and would allow us a little more time to prepare.   April for Mexico?   Sure why not.    Isn't Ketchikan on the way to Cabo?   



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