Rigid Boom Vang

Ken Juul · June 25, 2009, 08:43:39 AM

The wiki is in need of an article on the rigid vang. Please take some pictures and document your installation. Be happy to help you get it into the wiki format.

steve stoneback · June 25, 2009, 09:25:47 AM

Ken,
I will take pictures once I get everything I need to mount it.

Ron,
My boom is just as you describe yours. It has 4 bails, 3 for the mainsheet and one where the soft vang was . The mainsheet ran to block attached to an eye strap just under the front of the boom and then to a block at the base of the mast. I have removed that block (the one under the front edge of the boom) and ran the mainsheet from the front main sheet bail to the starboard aft mast pin, through deck organizer through the fairlead under the traveler then to the miserable jam cleat by the winch.

You said your rigid vang is attached between the vang bail and the forward mainsheet bail. The vang they sent me when fully compressed intersects the boom aft of the forward mainsheet bail. The picture of Stu's setup shows his boom passing through the froward boom bail.

That is why I was asking for measurements and what others have done. I know from reading here that many folks have upgraded to the Garhauer rigid vang. Either the bails on your boom are in a different location than on my boom or your vang is a shorter than the one they sent me or your boom set further off the deck than mine.

I talked to Guido and he says they can make me a longer bail ($$$) or possibly the vang I got is to long.
I am going to go the the boat today and measure it from bolt to bolt and then call them back.

It really shouldn't be this difficult.

Steve

Stu Jackson · June 25, 2009, 10:22:13 AM

"It really shouldn't be this difficult."

Yeah, that's what I said about trigonometry, too.

Our vang was ON the boat when we purchased her in 1998, so I can't help with the install. Captain Al (Watson) put one on his - a present for winning the 2000 Nationals, and many others have, too.

But no one seemed to be taking notes and most all "complained" about the lack of instructions from Garhauer, as I recall.

This may be an opportunity to make notes, take pictures, write them down, and send 'em to Bill and Guido for them to make instruction manuals for future skippers' use. Heck, maybe they'll give ya some goodies, like new jib fairlead blocks...

waterdog · June 25, 2009, 05:05:05 PM

Instructions for Wiki:

"Attach vang to mast as low as possible. Pull 4th bail off boom and throw it overboard. Pull the string and contract vang to minimum length. Have somebody hold the boom up a little bit below the point at which it would hang with the halyard up and the topping lift released. Attach the vang to boom at the point where it touches. Use the middle screws only at first. Give it dock trials with the main up. If you like it, put in the other 4 screws. If not move foreward or aft one set of screw holes."

It's not a hard job and there is no trig involved. That's my recollection and I did it based on Ron's detailed instructions. Refer to those if the above doesn't do it for you...

steve stoneback · June 26, 2009, 07:00:54 AM

Steve,

Your instructions are clear and simple....... but they don't work for me. The boom attachment on the vang Garhauer sent me intersects the boom about 6 inches aft of the forward mainsheet boom bail.

I called Garhauer and they gave me the pin to pin measurement of the vang both open and closed. 66 open and 58 closed. 8 inches of travel. I checked mine and it is 65 open and 57 closed.

The way I see it there are 3 possibilities. 1) you have a shorter vang. 2) your forward mainsheet bail is further aft. 3) your boom is higher.

This vang will not mount between the 3 and 4 boom bail.

Steve, take a look at Stu's rigid vang picture in this post and you will see what I am talking about. If you get a chance would you get 3 measurements; your vang length, distance from mast to forward mainsheet boom bail and distance from bottom of boom to the deck. Something has to be different.

Steve

waterdog · June 26, 2009, 07:27:29 AM

Ah but Steve, if you had followed my instructions, the 4th bail would be on the bottom of Lake Oahe and there would be no position between the two bails

I'll be at the boat today pulling the old main and loosening up bolts in prep to drop my rudder, so I'll try and remember to take a photo and some measurements. I actually left the old fourth bail on my boat and only pulled it off recently. I think the vang tucked right underneath it.

I realized there is something missing from the abbreviated instructions above and bears repeating anytime anybody attaches stainless hardware to their mast: dip your fasteners in Lanacote (or Tefgel or whatever the modern high tech goo is called) and make sure to put a barrier between the hardware and the mast/boom: rubber, the paint on vinyl goo, cut up milk jugs etc...

Stu's photo shows a set up quite different than mine. His 4th bail is an integral part of his main sheet arrangement. Mine isn't.

waterdog · June 26, 2009, 11:23:38 AM

OK. Here's a good reason not to trust memory. The vang tucks neatly under the third bail. And it is long at 57" pin to pin. Hope the pictures help. You don't need to swap the vang or buy different bails - just reroute your mainsheet and feel comfortable knowing it has been done before and it works....

steve stoneback · June 26, 2009, 11:44:20 AM

Steve,

Thanks for the pics and the measurement. Was your "57" measurement with the vang completely collapsed? From the position of your boom in the 3rd picture that is my assumption.

My vang fully closed to 57 intersects the boom about 6 inches aft of yours. I will either need a shorter vang or a longer bail.

Thanks again

Steve

Stu Jackson · June 26, 2009, 12:04:04 PM

Quote from: steve stoneback on June 26, 2009, 11:44:20 AM
My vang fully closed to 57 intersects the boom about 6 inches aft of yours. I will either need a shorter vang or a longer bail.

Steve, there's another solution: Remove the interfering bail and move it AFT as far as it needs to go. To maintain the integrity of the boom, you can then do what I did and make compression bushings to put on the bolts for these now pretty close together holes in the boom. In fact, I recommend that everyone do this for their boom bails. I learned from Jon Arck's misadventures a few years ago when his boom collapsed. This is what it looks like, and repeats some of my pictures on page 1 of that topic that Ken linked on page one of this thread:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3339.15.html

Also read Ron's reply #19 on this topic - he noted that my vang is further aft on the boom which appears to have necessitated the long bail. He's right, but I wasn't there when it was installed and I couldn't tell you what happened. Based on Steve D's pictures, maybe mine's on wrong, but it's been working for all the time we've had the boat. Maybe if you just scrunch your new vang some more it'll go in under your bail? I don't think what you're seeing is any reason to believe you have the wrong vang, nor reason to return it.

waterdog · June 26, 2009, 01:38:55 PM

Steve - 57" was completely collapsed. If yours falls aft:

1) you have your vang mounted higher than mine on the mast
2) your boom is mounted lower than mine, or
3) your bail is farther forward than mine.

Those are the only options I can think of based on the dimensions that are present in the universe we are occupying. Note there are only 3 bails on my boom. You can probably see where the hole was for the foreward most bail. So I am way far aft of the original soft vang bail (the one you should throw overboard).

But I don't think you are misunderstanding anything. You are dealing with a different animal. We've just confirmed that it is not the vang that is different.

Two additional measurements are going to be helpful for you here before you start creating metal filings. One is the measurement from the mast to bail 3. The other is boom height. I might be able to get these when I'm back at the boat tomorrow. But it's haul out and drop the rudder day so no promises.

steve stoneback · June 26, 2009, 02:15:35 PM

Steve,

Thanks again. Yes, we have confirmed we have the same vang, both 57 collapsed. I too will measure the bolt location for the forward mainsheet bail and the distance from deck to underside of boom.

I mounted the mast plate right up against the eye strap at the very base of the mast where the old soft vang was connected. That strap is riveted on and one rivet is visible and the other is behind the mast boot. If I were to remove it (the eye strap) I could get the vang mount about 1/2 inch lower but that won't change the boom location near enough.

I will just have to find or make a longer boom bail..... or do what Stu suggested, move the forward boom bail aft.

Steve