Glow Plug Solenoid

[Stu Jackson]

mnewber,

You wrote: "The lower harness plugs by engine are perfect."

If you still have the plugs and not the new "EURO-STRIP" connector, that may be your issue.  One of the problems associated with the old system was exactly that: the plugs.  As noted many times in discussions about the old wiring harness, the plugs can look fine on the outside and be rotted on the inside.

If it was my boat, I'd take every one apart and check them out, especially at the engine end.

One of our members did the harness upgrade and didn't use the Euro-strip, but connected each of the wires together.  Many ways to do it.

I assume you've read the wiring harness post in Projects:  http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-harness-upgrade.html

[mnewber]

Stu thanks i agree, from the outside they look perfect.  I've been to WM and got gouged on the replacement wires going to do the run that Capt Al outlined in his upgrade section for his old 34.  So now if I can get some time away from work it's the re-wire and solenoid project.  I also have to replace all the wires running at the engine panel as well.   
Thanks! 
Mark

[mnewber]

so Sunday's project was to install the glow plug solenoid and also check the rubber wire harness plugs. 

I completed the solenoid install and got the engine started.  All good!  (So to disclose a novice mistake) the first take on the wiring from the starter to the soloeniod i had the wires on the wrong post, Forgot I had it mounted upside down so change the wires around and it started.  Then came the engine panel inspection and wire harness plug inspection.  As mentioned before the red and orange wires at the key switch were burning so I cut them back and attached a new set of terminals and re-attached.  Then checked the plugs on both ends and they look pretty good (only 600 hours on engine so not a lot of use).
I then went back up to start the engine and it won't turn over the starter won't turn.  I can hear the solenoid still click when the key is turned to glow but when I press the start button i just get a buzzer sounding off.  I tested the started soleniod with the old screw driver across the terms and that turns it over. 
And BTW, the local auto parts store now gets about $23 for the ford soleniod.

I know this is a shot in the dark but any ideas?  I've checked all the connections and they seem to be all still attached. 

Thanks!

[Stu Jackson]

Run a separate wire from the switch (button) to the starter.  The solenoid glow plug should have nothing to do with the starter.  Running a separate wire helps to assure that the wiring bundle isn't an issue and that the button still works.  It could still be the old "good lookin' from the outside" harness plugs.  Don't say we didn't try to warn you.

[Jon Schneider]

Stu, I think when Mark talks about connecting the starter to the solenoid, he's just tapping into the common power lead in the most convenient spot. 

Mark, I wonder if the panel fuse blew?  I know you get a warning buzzer, but I'm not sure if everything is wired through that fuse.  Also, I hate to ask it, but are you sure you connected the new terminals to the right leads on the ignition switch?  BTW, you've got to bypass that orange wire, which charges the battery from the alternator or you're going to have the same problem again.  It's a big part of the reason for the harness upgrade (the connector plugs being the other reason, but having had the same burnt wires you had at the switch, I think the alternator wire bypass is the more important change).

Other than checking the fuse and the connections, I suppose the next step is for you to make sure the red lead is getting power at the switch (e.g., use a testing light or a voltmeter).  If you're getting power, then the problem is in the key switch (either mechanically or with the terminals).  BTW, how did you check the harness connectors?  Did you pull them apart?  Could your inspection have damaged the connection?

[steve stoneback]

Mark,

My 1989 (#918) had 435 hours on the engine when the harness plugs shorted out last year.  My point is, I think age and corrosion have a lot more to do with the potential problem than engine hours. 

My advise is get rid of the plugs.  Like Stu says, you have been warned.

I am damn lucky to still have my boat.

When I get time I am going to do a complete writeup with pictures of the melted mess which happened 8 miles out of the marina.

Steve

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

There is an inline fuse right at the starter solenoid. Check that first.

Mike

[mnewber]

Thanks everyone!  A good list to get started with. 

Jon, i pulled them apart, you're entirely correct in that they could be damaged!  Replaced the new leads to the same terminal they came off of. 

Stu/Steve warning noted!  i've got the wires to replace the entire run just need the time prior to going out on the water.   

Good news is I was able to get the Garhauer rigid vang installed yesterday! At least that's out of the way, now i need to be able to start up the engine, ensure that the wiring doesn't burn down the boat and I think we are good.  with that project at least.

thanks again!  i'll post up after i get a chance to inspect fruther.

[Jon Schneider]

Mark, that should be easy enough to check with a testing light.  But I really think Mike's hit the nail on the head.  Every time I monkey in the engine compartment, I see that in-line fuse and try to remind myself that someday that might be a culprit, and that I must try to remember its existence.  The other thing is, go ahead and change those plugs right now.  There's about a foot of extra wire in the old harness, so you won't even have to change the harness wires (but make sure of this extra length before you snip).  A local electrical supply store should have a terminal strip.  If you look on page 723 of the McMaster-Carr catalogue (www.mcmaster.com), you'll find a product called "Touch-Safe Terminal Blocks."  That's what Seaward provides in their harness upgrade package.  Get the 12-gang .39" version (all of $4 each); you need two.  Good luck. 

[mnewber]

Thanks again!  I checked the fuse when i first had the crossed wires and it was good.  I did not check it on the second go round!  Good reminder Mike/Jon.  The touch safe strips I saw yesterday at radio shack when i was looking for some parts for my motorcycle HID headlight project but they were the smallest ones.  I went to lowes and they didn't have them.  I may either order from McMaster or look at a local elecrtric shop to see. 

Thanks! 

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

I had problems with my starter last time I was at the boat. Engine started fine at the dock,went out sailing for a few hours, went to start the engine and nothing. (Good thing I had practiced docking under sail) After getting back in, I called my trusty mechanic and he recommend checking the inline fuse. The fuse was not blown but the fuse holder seemed loose, as it was turning freely on the wire. I opened it up. cleaned all metal contacts with a dremel tool, put it all back together and it worked!
There was no obvious corrosion but I think something was loose in the fuse holder itself, possibly the spring that keeps tension between the fuse and the metal contacts on the wire.
BTW, the mechanic said that that fuse and it's holder is the cause of starter problems 90% of the time!
Hope your resolution is this simple.

Mike

[Ron Hill]

Mike  : I believe that this same problem has come up a number of times.  I wrote it up in the early 1990s in the Mainsheet Tech notes. 
The sure check (if the engine won't crank) is to take a screwdriver to the starter solenoid post and then touch the engine block at the same time.  If you hear the starter crank, you've got a dead fuse or a bad connection "quote from the old Tech Notes". 
Great stuff has been written in the Mainsheet, but only if it's read!! 

[jmnpe]

Mark,

You can also get a 12 position 30 amp insulated terminal strip similar to what Jon talked about from Mouser electronics ( www.mouser.com). Their part number is 538-39100-1012, and they cost $3.26 each. They are on page 1440 of the current catalog. They also have a 40 amp version for slightly less money ( $3.02 ) - go figure! This type of terminal strip is commonly referred to as a "Eurostyle" terminal strip.

John

[mnewber]

Another one bites the dust.  Euro plugs picked up at Radio Shack inserted, cleaned fuze and "BOOM BABY" it starts!   so solonoid and wire harness upgrade behind me! 
It was tough it was blowing like stink here today and about 85 degrees!  Maybe tomorrow.
Thanks all!