Oil Pan Replcement

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

I've read a lot of posts about replacing the pan but no one has commented on how hard is to get access to all the bolts. I'd like to hear from someone who has done this.
Also, is the Kabota pan compatable? One of the posts mentioned there was a difference that can be resolved by some minor welding changes.
Mine is terrably rusted from a previous leak and I probably won't know if I will have to replace it until I take it out and look at it.
Prices quote from a local Universal dealer is $313 for the pan and $50 for the gasket.

Thanks in advace,
Mike

[Stu Jackson]

Mike

The best description I have read is Dave Sanner's in Projects:  http://www.c34.org/projects/queimada/m25xp/

[Ron Hill]

Mike : There have been a post or two that the Kubota D950 engine pan has the oil dipstick on the port side.  I'm sure that the gasket is the same.  Look on our web site at the D950 engine parts breakdown.  I made a CD and use it frequently!!   Hope this helps.   

[Joe Nalley]

Mike and Joanne,

Several years ago I replaced the oil pan on Allegro, my 1987 Catalina 34 , Hull 415.  As I remember, there are 18 allen head screws to remove. First, my friends and I disconnected fuel lines, electrical and water connections and engine mounts. We then used a chain hoist stapped to an iron post across the companionway to lift the engine about 4 inches to gain interference free access. Replaced the pan and reversed the steps without a problem. NOTE!! Please do not use a "come-along"! We tried that and a crimped connection promptly pulled apart and the wire rope almost took our heads off.

Good Luck,

Joe Nalley
Allegro 415

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Joe, I was under the impression that there is enough clearance to get the pan out without having to raise the engine. Did you try that first and fail or did you raise it to get better access to the bolts?

Stu, I have seen Dave Sanners project and it is great but doesn't really address how hard it is to get it out. It didn't seem like he had to raise the engine in his post so maybe all is not lost.

[Ron Hill]

Mike : Raising the engine is not that difficult.  When I changed my engine mounts back in 1999 all I had to disconnect was the drive shaft and the exhaust riser(at the muffler).  I used a 4:1 block and tackle and I'm sure that you can get the engine high enough to remove all of the oil pan bolts.

Just put my engine back in the boat.  Still have to connect everything back up.  Had to fix a $32 problem!!
You'll hear more about that later.   

[Mark Elkin]

You know how one maintenance task leads to another.....

Well, I just finished "remove, repaint, and reinstall" of the original oil pan.  My oil pan had some bad looking exterior corrosion.  (Picture 1) But it turned out to all be on the surface, so I just stripped the old paint, polished the metal, repainted and reinstalled.  (Pictures 2, 4, and 5).

Getting the pan out and back in without lifting the engine can be done -- I know cause that's what I did.  Just be prepared to spend a lot of time on your side or belly on the cabin sole.  Access to the forward and side bolts was easy.  Just use a thin wall socket, preferably with a 1/8" shaft.  BTW, they are 10mm hex heads.  There's plenty of space to access to the aft bolt heads, just have to do it by feel. 

Oh, and be sure to remove the dip stick pipe first -- I didn't and had to re-attach the pan to the engine with a couple of bolts to that I could then use both hands to manipulate the wrench (again, 10mm) to remove the dip stick mounting bolts.  With the dip stick pipe removed, the pan slid out of the engine sump space very easily. 

BTW, I recommending buying a whole roll of those oil absorbing cloths.  Be sure to put a couple under the engine before you even start, if you don't already leave one there full time.  Spread one or two more on the cabin sole forward of the engine to catch any drips as you work.  And leave them there, along with a drip bucket under the oil pump intake while your oil pan is out.  In picture 3, you can see how much oil dripped from the engine during the two weeks that my pan was at home getting its beauty treatment.

Removing the old oil pan gasket was a horrendous chore.  The old gasket was practically welded to the engine.  But several safety razors and many hours later, all traces of the old gasket were gone.

Reinstalling the repainted pan was not too difficult, just messy due to the gasket goop.  A couple of the bolts were a pain to tighten.  For some reason, the socket didn't fit as tightly to the bolt head this time as it did when removing the bolts.  But a stubby open/box wrench worked out fine.

Anyway, it's done now.  With all the old oil completely drained away and replaced with new oil, I found it really hard to see the oil line on the dip stick.  Here's a few pictures.

[Ron Hill]

Mark : Good Show!!!

For others that are removing their oil pan here's a consideration.  Move the oil drain from the front of the pan to the rear of the pan.  Insert a plug in the old forward hole.
With the engine install it is inclined so the majority is in the rear of the pan.  You'll get a better oil change. 
That's where the new Universal "B-series" engines have the oil drain!   A thought.   

[Mark Elkin]

I fully agree with Ron about moving the drain to the rear due to the incline of the engine.  There was probably a pint of old oil in the pan after I'd drained it at the beginning of my project.  I was simply impatient and didn't want to spend even more time with the pan removed from the engine. 

And, since someone is bound to ask....
No, you cannot simply rotate the pan 180 degrees.  Beside the dip stick now being in the wrong location, the side mounting holes are NOT symmetrically aligned with engine block; they are shifted aftwards a quarter inch or so.  So the only possibility is the modification Ron suggests, or buying a whole new pan from your dealer.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Mark,

Great pictures and great documentation. This helps me tremendously.

The PO replaced the drain hose with just a plug, do you think the convenience of the hose warrants me changing back to one?

Mike

[Ted Pounds]

The drain hose is definitely the way to go.  Much easier than trying to pump out the dipstick tube.  I put a fitting on my vacuum oil pump that screwed right into the drain hose.  Made changing the oil a breeze with no mess.    Changing the oil filter on the other hand....   

[Mark Elkin]

Definitely recommend the hose.  While I've used the dipstick suction gadget up to now, I won't ever do that again.  Due to placement of the dipstick tube to the side of the oil pan, the most of the old, dirty oil you'll ever get out that way is maybe 50%.  Using the drain forward plug (older models), with or without the hose attachment, will get 90% of the old oil.

Check with your local Universal / Westerbeke engine shop, or Torrensen Marine (http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&mfc=Universal&sku=200373) to get the hose conversion kit.

I only used the dip stick thing before because I could never get the bottom hose to work.  Turns out that the pump that the PO provided wasn't working -- it wouldn't draw enough of a vacuum to prime the system.  Also discovered that the special "hollow" bolt that attaches the hose to the bottom of the oil pan was turned about 45 deg to the optimum angle for feeding the hose, making it much harder to get enough oil into the hose to start with.  I've now marked the bolt's head with a line to indicate where it's side holes are located.  Next time I change my oil, I'll loosen the bolt just enough to align the internal holes to the hose, about a 30 to 45 degree twist.  And of course, I'm going to get a new pump that creates a sufficient vacuum to start with.

[Jon Schneider]

It's worth checking out Hansen Marine for Universal parts instead (hansenmarine.com).  They have this one for $10 less than Torrensen.  You also need to a drain plug adapter (301023). 

[Ron Hill]

Guys : I believe that most of the M25 & M25XP engines came with an oil drain hose. 
As I wrote in the Mainsheet, my hose developed an oil leak at the bottom factory connection and I replaced the hose with regular 3/8" fuel hose + a hose clamp.  That $2 fix was well worth it, so I didn't have to spend the $100+ on that oil drain kit that I didn't need!! 
Great info in those old Tech notes!!  A thought   

[Bob K]

For pumping the oil from the drain hose, I've been using one of those $5 rotary pumps that they sell at auto parts stores - the kind you attach to your drill.  Works good for maybe 2 changes, and then the oil eats up the rubber, and I have to get a new one.   Previously I had a hand pump whuch also didn't last.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive hand pump for changing the oil - one that will last a while?  Thanks