Holding tank

[Larry Robertie]

Larry, please keep us posted on your installation efforts (pictures) and results.  I know the results could take a little time but summer is upon us again, so things are getting "sweet" in the old tank again.

I'll take pictures along the way.  Actually, I've also purchased a tank monitor with external foil sensors.  I'll document that also.

I hear you on that "sweet" tank.  On my C27 it got so bad that I changes out the toilet, and all of the hoses except the pump out (it's a tight fit in the V-Berth).  Still graced me with the essence, so I went to Wally Mart and got some pool shock.  The stuff was specifically for vinyl pools.  One tea spoon to season the... ah... soup, and my problem was solved.

[Roger Blake]

Has anyone installed the 12 volt Power Bubbles in their holding tank? Looks like a good solution for about $35. Link is here:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0013525013714a&type=product&cmCat=perf&rid=0180101070502&xpid=k1343&cm_ven=Performics&cm_cat=Affiliate%2Dclick&cm_pla=BizRate.com&cm_ite=DDI%20link

[Larry Robertie]

It was a cold and damp morning in New England, but I managed to get out and get something done on the boat today!

I've posted a few projects on my blog at http://robertie.com/blog/?cat=8.  The inspection port looks good, shine a flashlight down and you can see forever (if... you care to  ).  Unfortunately I did not measure the vent hose before building a filter, etc... but little harm done - it can wait for another day.


Thankfully, the tank on Ruach has never been used, what a relief!

[Kelley Dean]

I purchased the West Marine Sweet Water aerator 2 years ago. Save your money. It does not work. The theory made so much sense though. It was always on when at the dock, off when sailing. At the dock, there was always a hint of odor. You also had to learn to tune out the noise of the pump. I installed it under the sink in the head. I even tried the fresh water route. I have found the best fix is to use the head often, and pump-out frequently. (with a rinse a freshwater at pumpout)

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

I have recently started using a product called Odorlos available at WM and it is working great! I am using the pre-measured powder packets but is also available as a liquid. It is a nitrete based compound and has no odor of its own but since I have been using it I haven't had ANY odor from the holding tank.

If you are using a pump out station the best procedure is to pump out, re-fill the tank with fresh water, pump out again, add a few gallons of fresh water then add the chemical through the toilet.

If using the macerator at sea, pump out, add some water, either sea water through the toilet pump handle or fresh water from the sink hose (depends on how much you're trying to conserve fresh water and how soon you'll be back at the dock)and punp out again. Then add the chemical through the toilet, putting in a few more gallons of water.

Even after being away from the boat for two weeks their's NO odor when returning and expecting that nasty smell from the vent the first time you use the toilet.

I still need to look at my macerator next weekend to figure out why it's not working but from what I've been reading about it so far, I think its going to be a bad impeller.

Hope you all have a great Memorial Day,
Mike

[Stu Jackson]

Mike, goo input, thanks.  For your macerator, if you haven't done it yet, try reversing the wires to get the pump to run backwards.  That could clear it, or you could have an impeller issue.  Good luck.

[Ron Hill]

Guys: This worth repeating. 
No toilet tissue in the holding tank!!  Have it put in a zip lock bag and throw it out with the trash.  Even the BEST marine grade tissue will tend to clog things up!!
A thought.   

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

I took my macerator apart last weekend to see what the problem was not being able to pump out. the impeller looked OK but when I compared it with the new one I bought, it was a Little more flimsy than the new one so I thought it would be worth replacing it.

I didn't see any obvious obstructions or blockage so I was hoping the impeller would fix it.

When I got everything back together, it seemed to be working OK on my first fresh water fill up and pump out, but the second time I tried it it was back to the same old trouble. The motor runs and the shaft is turning but nothing is pumping.

By the way, it was a messy job because even after flushing the tank out twice at the pump out station, when we disconnected the hose that connects the macerator to the bottom of the tank, there was still a lot of sediment and crud that came out of the tank. Also there some STUFF in there that was like gravel, possibly STUFF that had calcified over the years.

We were starting to take it appart again to see if we could find out was wrong when one of the hose clamp screws broke off from rust and the screw part was still clamping the hose so I'll have to go back next time with my dremmel tool to try to cut the stainless band.

Anyway, I noticed that I used to get water out of the stanchion vent when the tank was full but I did not this time, If the vent is plugged could this cause the problem I'm having and how hard is it to get access to the vent line at the stanchion?

If the deck pump out plate is open, would this cause a problem with the macerator pumping?

I'm pretty sure the vent is plugged because at one point we took the vent hose off at the tank elbow and watter gushed out of the tank that should have been going out the vent hose.

One other thought is could the pump have an air lock? I know it is supposed to be self priming but is it always?

I wish I was able to get the hoses off while I was there but I did not have all the tools I needed and I also ran out of time. Sure would be nice to live closer to the boat.

Any ideas will be appreciated.

Mike

[Bob K]

Mike, If you have a clogged vent, I think that would prevent the macerator from working properly.  The macerator would pump until it pulls a vacuum in the holding suffiicient to overcome the power of the pump.  You really need to clear that vent.  You may need to reroute it a bit to get rid of any low spots which act like a sink trap. On my 1992, the vent line connection to the stanchion is accesible throught the sliding door. above the nav table.   There was a low spot at the elbow just below the vent , and another where the hose connects to the tank.  If it ever overflows again, it will now self-drain.  Next job is a tank level indicator - I'm sick of guessing. Good luck!

[Stu Jackson]

Bob's right about the location of the vent, since it goes right into the bottom of the stanchion.  Many have reported that hoses get kinked at that location and in other places on the hose's run to the holding tank.  We installed a 90 degree elbow just below the stanchion to get rid of that kink.  Unfortunately, the vent hose is actually too small for the tank and putting a 90 degree elbow in it doesn't help the concept of the vent, which is to provide fresh air to the tank.  Most production sailboats get this design concept and execution of it completely wrong. 

The best source of finding about heads and how to avoid boat odors is Peggie Hall's great book, which can be found here: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=400&sku=35630&cat=1304

[Ed Shankle]

Stu,
I think the only time that the vent is going to supply any measurable fresh air to the tank is when the tank is pumped out. Most of the time it acts as a release vent, to let air out of the tank as the tank is filled.
As mentioned previously, I believe the key is to use the head often and pump out often, to introduce oxygen. Otherwise, some kind of mechanical means of pumping air in is needed.

Ed

[Stu Jackson]

The discussion of the purpose(s) and use of the vent is at Reply #2 on this thread:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=1198.0

The vent, as you note, Ed, lets air out and in.  It stops the holding tank from building up pressure.  However, it SHOULD also do what is described in the reference, but mostly does NOT do so because of the way our boat, and unfortunately most others, were built and are still being built.

"As mentioned previously, I believe the key is to use the head often and pump out often, to introduce oxygen. Otherwise, some kind of mechanical means of pumping air in is needed."

I agree, however, the proper way to deal with it is not pumping air, but introducing a proper venting system.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

If it turns out that my vent line is clogged, I think it may have been caused by me over filling the tank to flush it out and forcing anything floating on the top (those nasty paper products that Ron warned about) up through the vent and clogging it.Something to think about when flushing. When I pulled the vent line off the top of the tank and got the gusher out of the tank, I also got some bits and pieces of paper so that may be the problem.

I also wanted to try the procedure that Stu mentioned about reversing the DC wiring but when I went to find some quick connects to put on the macerator they were only available in packs of 25 at about $18 for each the male and female connectors so I thought I would try to find them somewhere else in  a smaller quantity.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of this problem.

Mike

[Stu Jackson]

Mike

It may be easier to simply replace the five or six feet of vent tube hose.

For smaller packs of disconnects try a marine store, Ancor brand, they usually sell them in packs of three or five - Ace Hardware sells the mega packs only, I've found.  They're more expensive.  Another way to do it is to simply cut the wiring a foot off the pump, strip the wires, do the test and then use butt connectors to splice.  It should only need to be a one time check and good for a long time that could easily be done again in the future.

[Footloose]

Mike,

Go to a real hardware store, not the Depot, and you should be able to buy connectors one at a time.  They have them in the many drawers that have misc parts.  Around here Hillman supplies most of this kind of stuff.