wingkeel or finkeel

[jos van der haagen]

We live in the netherlands and we have ordered a catalina 34mk2, which will be delivered in march 2007.
We have doubts about the choice of a wingkeel or finkeel.
Most of the time we sail at sea ( to England, Belgium, France and the Scandinavian countries)
Our marina is located at a very large inner lake( ijsselmeer). We think that a deep keel (finkeel) is better for the sea but the wingkeel is much more heavier. We have no experience with the catalina. Could you tell us which experience you have with your keel?
Regards,
Sonja and Jos van der Haagen

[Ken Juul]

the difference in keel weights is to keep the righting moment about the same.  The fin keel needs less weight because it has a longer lever arm.  Choice of keel should be determined by where you sail, if the water is deep enough a fin keel is prefered because it gives slightly better pointing  ability.

[Steve Hansen]

jos

I think if you have no shallow cruising grounds to contend with, go with the fin keel. the wing keel's upwind performance will degrade with any excessive heeling. I think the wing keel was made originally to circumvent a race rule. i.e. if you had 2 keels of equal draft and one had a wing, the wing would out perform. Later it was adopted by cruisers to improve performance to a shallow draft keel. We have a wing keel, and I must say she performs well. I have no complaints with it and it is quite suited to the shallows of the chesapeake bay.
Steve

[Stu Jackson]

As far as I know, there have never been ANY actual tests ever made to confirm any differences in  pointing ability by sailing two boats, one fin, one wing, next to each other.  That said, there seems to be a consensus that the fin keel points a small bit higher.

However, you should make your decision based on the depth of water you intend to sail.  While the Channel and the North Sea would indicate a deeper keel, if you are 1) cruising and 2) planning the canals, you have no choice but to go with the wing keel.  The controlling depths of the canals would be your guide.  And not racing would eliminate the small discrepancy in pointing.

The righting moments of the boats with the different keels are the same.

We sailed a bareboat 26 ft. power cruiser from Sneek in 2004 and had a wonderful time, and I do remember all the leeboards, and I also remember the canals in France having a controlling depth that would preclude a fin keel.

[ohana34]

Having sailed both, the one difference I noticed was the Wing is a little wetter under some conditions.

[gerard]

I live also in the Netherlands and have a Catalina 34 mkII delivered in march 2006 (with a wing keel). Our Marina is in Zeeland with variated depths.
I must say I agree with Steve, my experience she performs well. I have no complaints with it and it is quite suited to the shallows. For your sailarea (IJsselmeer depth average 2-3 m; England, Belgium, France and the Scandinavian countries) a wing keel isn't necessary. But a wing keel expand your sail area in the Netherlands (Friesland, it is more convenient in Zeeland).  But to be honest we have no experience with a finkeel.
Gerard

[George Bean]

Northern California PHRF gives the C34 wing keel boats six seconds per mile over fin boats as does the old (1999) Fleet 9 rules.  My personal experience is limited to racing Rick Nile's Gentle Storm (1294) during the 2002-2003 season and the Nationals.  Gentle Storm and Freya (1476) both were equipped with folding props and 130% genoas (our sails even came from the same loft!).  On several occasions, Gentle Storm tried to cover me but I always was able to out point and pass to windward.  I would guess that my tacking angle was tighter by between five and ten degrees.  Unless you are contemplating racing or sail a lot in narrow channels and sounds, the difference in keels isn't that big.  A lot of our Florida and East Coast owners enjoy the shallower draft.  Although, I am not entirely convinced that one foot makes that much difference, as this summer, I bumped a sandbar that was four feet below the surface.

I would recommend a folding prop if you are concerned at all about performance.  I use a Flex-o-Fold three bladed prop which is made by a Danish company.  Check them out! 

[Ron Hill]

jos : I'd recommend that you go for the fin keel with all of that ocean around you.  It will point higher(sail closer to the wind), have a lower center of gravity and you have MUCH more rudder surface area. 
The wing is good in areas that are shallower.  The difference in depth of the deeper fin to the wing is ABOUT 16 inches or 40 cm. 
Hope this helps   

[Tom Lanzilli]

I have a wing keel on my 34 and can only add one point that has not been said in this thread.  I recently upgraded from a Catalina 25 with a 4' fin keel.  I moor my boat in a basin which gives me a challenge at low tides depending on the hight of the tide.  The area I am in is mud based and at low tides my 4' fin could slice through the mud with no difficulty.  On my C34 MK II with a 4'3" wing the bottom surface of the wing is fairly large and instead of slicing through the mud it acts like a suction cup and brings the boat to a stop fairly fast.

I realize if I had a fin keel on the C34 my challenge would increase, but I must say I need to be on a greater alert now as my clearance starts to disappear.

[Ron Hill]

jos : Tom's got a good point that it's easier to unstick a fin keel from a grounding than a wing.

However, if you're in a area that has a sizable tidal range (like 2/3 meters+) and can't get off,  the wing keel boat will stay standing straight up when the waters out - rather than the fin that will be on it's side.  A few thoughts.   

[jos van der haagen]

Thanks a lot for all your comments about the subject whether to choose a wing or a finkeel. Due to your recommendations we have decided to choose a finkeel. For our sailing area (mostly deep waters) the finkeel is the best choice. However America is far away from Holland the change of meeting each other is difficult we wish you good sailing trips with your Catalina.

Sonja and Jos van der Haagen
e-mail: josvanderhaagen@planet.nl

C34 - Ventoux (2007)

[Stu Jackson]

Sonja and Jos

All the best with your new boat.  As new boat owners, please be aware that Catalina Yachts provides a free first year membership in the Catalina 34 International Association.  Send me an email (mraquaq@aol.com) and I'll send you some more details offline.  Also check, if you haven't already:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2768.0